First all-grain batch: not a good day

[Martin Bridges]

Hi folks,

Well, the day finally dawned on Saturday - my first all-grain batch! However, it all got a bit stressful and didn't work out all that well. To cut a long story short (the unexpurgated version (with photos) is on my blog) I had problems getting the wort out of the mash tun. I'm using a braided hose in my converted chilly bin and I could only get a couple of litres out before the flow rate slowed to a trickle then stopped entirely. I could get a trickle out by stroking the hose with my stirring paddle, but that's not a viable option for the whole batch. I ended up ladelling the mash out into a sieve and sparging it through that. Calculations were all out of whack though.

I can only think that the holes in the braided hose were too small and were blocking up. Other braided screen users - how did you find it?

I need to come up with a revised design and fast - my in-laws arrive in 3 weeks and I'll be unable to brew for the three weeks they're here so I need to get another batch going soon!

Cheers,

Martin

[Dai]

Hi Martin,

Sounds like you had the same problem as me; although, this happened on my second batch, not the first so I do not know what I did right the first time! I did two things to fix it. First, the wort had to be siphoned out of the chilli bin, which was a bit tricky and I had loads of stopages (although, the guy at the homebrew store manages to do this very easily). Fixed this by drilling a hole through the side of the bin at the bottom so that the wort could flow out under gravity. I had to buy a grommet to make the seal between the manifold and the chilli bin water tight and had to bung up the manifold during mashing to not lose the liquor altogether, but it works well. When I need a new chilli bin, I'll buy one of those ones with the tap in it! Second, I drilled twice as many holes in the manifold, which really helped too (also, have the holes facing down). The wort comes out fast though, so I attached one of those plastic taps to slow it down (a couple of bucks from the home brew shop). I did these modifications at the same time, but think maybe just drilling the holes would have worked well on its own, as I think this was the major problem.

The other option I seriously considered was to buy two 15-20L buckets and make a lauter tun. If you are not familiar, basically put one bucket inside the other and drill lots of little holes (like a false bottom) in the inside bucket. Use the chilli bin as normal for mashing, then chuck the whole mixture into the bucket after mashing is complete (apparently this can be messy with splash back!). The wort will flow through to the little dead space between the buckets, so you need to drill a spigot into the outside bucket to get it out. Sparge as normal. Didn't do this though as my modifications to the set up I had appeared to work!

Hope this helps, Dai.

[vdog]

Haven't had the same problem as you - maybe the braid I've used has a coarser texture (bigger holes)? I suppose you could do a copper manifold and connect it the same way the hose currently is, although that'll require you to get copper and joints etc from somewhere and assemble it all (which might be a pain in the arse, specially since I know you went to lots of trouble to set up the braided hose deal in the first place!).

[Martin Bridges]

Yes, I'd prefer to make the braided hose deal work. Have thought about just drilling some holes in it, but not sure if structural integrity will be maintained! The alternative is to build a plastic or copper manifold, which I suspect I may have to investigate.

Thanks for all the tips folks.

Martin

[Tony]

I've got some spare pvc hose if you want some, Martin. Feel free to give me a call and check it out, plus try my new APA.

[Steve Baker]

Martin, I have an identical setup to you and it works fine. There is one minor difference though. I've attached a tube to the end of my tap and I submerge the tube in the vessel so I get a siphon effect which sucks out the wort.

The one time I tried without the tube I got a flow which is similar to what you described.

Since the tube is long enough, when the vessel is full I can just raise it (and the tube) above the level of the tun to stop the flow. Then I empty the vessel into the pot, and lower it to start filling again.

So assuming you open the tap nice and slow you shouldn't compact the grain bed (which might cause the stuckage).

If it does get stuck, using a tube will give your lips something to wrap around so you can give it a good blow ;)

[MrC]

I feel for you, there's nothing worse that spending hours planning followed by hours brewing only to have a frantic disspointment. I still remember feeling like that when I made an American Wheat that wasn't crushed properly. My wife had to take the kids away due the language. It's all good experience though I guess.

I can't help with the braided hose thing, I went for a PVC manifold which I'm reviewing at the moment.

Have you tried calculating your efficiency? I think you'd find it interesting to see how effective your mash & sparge were even though it may not have gone to plan. My efficiency is terrible (approx 55%) but for now I just add more grain to compensate untill I figure out a better way (aiming for 70%).

Your blog mentioned that you were aiming for 1.043 and got 1.040, that doesn't sound too bad to me. I reckon you'll still have good beer.

[Reviled]

Should have done BIAB, then you wouldnt have had to worry about sparging at all, easy peasy :o)

Instead of making something, why not just go out and spend $10 on swiss voile material, im assuming you allready have a kettle, then youre good to go... You could even do a full wheat beer and not have to worry about a stuck sparge :o)

Just my $0.02, sorry for the plug

Edit : Thought I might add that my efficiency for my first ever AG brew was over 81%!!!

[denimglen]

Sounds like a case of ye olde stuck sparge.

Who crushed the grain? May have been crushed too finely.

Next time get your lungs into action and just blow into your run-off tube. That's usually enough to blow the crap that's clogging it out. If that doesn't work, or you'd just rather go the heave duty approach, get a hose and shoot some water into the mash tun outlet. After either method give her another stir and let it settle again and hope for the best.

[Dan]

Hi Ive never used a braided hose so cant say how to improve it, I went from a nylon bag, which was a complete waste of time to a 20L bucket in bucket which worked but overflowed regularly to what I constructed from scrap out of the garage and 2 years on am still using. Its basically a 20L bucket with fermentor tap, an old colander from an pot with extra holes drilled and a small length of copper tube from tap to centre, there is a fair bit of deadspace but it works and it was free. Ive been meaning to make a copper manifold in a chilli bin for 2 years now but havent got around to it and what im using works anyway, although I have to transfer mash to lauter tun it only takes 2 mins. You can also use a plastic plate upside down in the bucket, holes drilled in and hose outlet inth middle, see DaaBs mashtun from Jimsbeerkit.co.uk
Heres my cheap lauter tun

The lid of it is drilled with holes and the hot water flows through nicely, easy to jug water from the HLT, the sides of the colander are drilled too, this tun has done well over a hundred brews now with only a few stuck sparges, about 4-5, it runs clear but i have to recirc usually about 8 litres to get good clarity.

[Barry]

Reckon you need to come and check out a brew day at my place Martin - get a reference point. It'll really help things.
My braid setup has always worked flawlessly, my braided hose is small with tiny gaps. Not had an issue.

[Toast]

I used the DaaB method and it works really well

it drains really quickly, cleanly and is easy to take apart and clean