Brew Advice

[Mark Kessell]

the next WellyBC is imperial style beers, i'm going for an American Amber Ale as the base style. and not having brewed one before, not 100% sure how to tie it all together.

style is a mix of malt and hop flavours, balanced to the malt side of things.
any advice on the recipe appriciated.

btw - i'm after a full bodied, toffee malt flavour (not 100% sure which malt to use for that), with a light citrus flavour, and a nice piney/grassy aroma.

this is what i have so far:

Type: All Grain

Batch Size: 20.00 L

Boil Size: 28 L

Boil Time: 60 min

Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0

Amount	Item	Type	% or IBU
6.00 kg	.Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Bairds) (3.2 SRM)	Grain	80.00 %
0.50 kg	.Amber Malt (Bairds) (43.1 SRM)	Grain	6.67 %
0.50 kg	.Cara Malt (Bairds) (17.8 SRM)	Grain	6.67 %
0.50 kg	.Crystal, Medium (Bairds) (76.1 SRM)	Grain	6.67 %
20.00 gm	.Rakau [10.50 %] (60 min)	Hops	21.7 IBU
50.00 gm	Simcoe [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 4 days)	Hops	-
30.00 gm	.Motueka [7.80 %] (Dry Hop 4 days)	Hops	-
25.00 gm	.Motueka [7.80 %] (20 min)	Hops	12.2 IBU
30.00 gm	.Rakau [10.50 %] (20 min)	Hops	19.7 IBU
25.00 gm	.Amarillo [8.40 %] (10 min)	Hops	7.9 IBU
25.00 gm	.Motueka [7.80 %] (10 min)	Hops	7.3 IBU
25.00 gm	.Amarillo [8.40 %] (0 min)	Hops	-
25.00 gm	Simcoe [13.00 %] (0 min)	Hops	-

Est Original Gravity: 1.075 SG	Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG	Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.33 %	Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 %
Bitterness: 68.8 IBU	Calories: 0 cal/l

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body	Total Grain Weight: 7.50 kg
Sparge Water: 0.00 L	Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C	TunTemperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE	Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Single Infusion, Full Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 45 min Mash In Add 18.75 L of water at 72.7 C 66.0 C 10 min Fly Sparge Add 18.50 L of water at 74.7 C 70.0 C

[Soren]

I'd skip the amber malt, or at least cut it back a bit. in my experience it will give you more of a bready malt flavour rather than the toffee you are after. I would try to get some dark crystal in there tho, but balance the other malts so you dont go too dark.

[denimglen]

Have a geez at this recipe mate.

http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/group/therecipeexchange/forum/topic...

[Mark Kessell]

my current malt bill stands at:
84% base
10% caramalt (18SRM)
3% dark crystal
3% thomas fawcett dark

was thinking about the colour a bit last night as well. and i think your right warra, trying to keep it to around colour scale 17 is going to be hard given the imperial nature of the brew.

do you think the extra caramalt (18SRM) will make it too sweet, or will it start accentuating the flavours of the darker crystals?


hey thanks deminglen, i've been playing with the hop profile quite a bit since posting this up yesterday.
need to read up on the american hops again.

[Stu McKinlay]

Too much crystal all up in there for my liking Mark.
Remember it's going to be strong and sweet already at 7%+... and especially if you're using Maris Otter! You won't need that much caramalt and crystal. In a beer that strong I'd not have less than 10%. I made an 8% Imperial Red last year with 90% Pearl, 10% Caramunich and loads of Motueka. A few folk who tried it absolutely loved it but I found it too sweet... like a strawberry IPA!

The difficulty will be balancing the toffee with the hops.

I'd look at something more like...
92% UK Pale
4% Caramalt 35
3% Crystal 90
1% Dark Crystal 250

I wouldn't scale up the recipe on a linear fashion for any imperial beers... if you're trying to keep a high drinkability factor you need to tone back the %'s of specialty. The same applies in reverse: you can scale back total malt ill but up the specialty malts in a small beer.

[Mike Neilson]

+1 For Stus, Only thing I like is the Melanoidin for me I find it beefs up the malt to sort of balance the toffee, I used 7% for my F u Arrogant bastard and I thought it might of been just to much, 8-10% Crystal is alot so you will have to play with the water to help dry it out!! 16% Is fucken huge!! Maybee for a pale ale at a stretch.

[Mark Kessell]

this is what i'm trying to figure out.
i checked out a few ambers online, and they have anywhere up to 40% specialities!
but then most are crazy american bastards.

atm, it seems to me, that i need to try and balance the sweetness of the brew, with the toffee flavours i'm looking for. so, given the imperial nature of the malt bill, i figured adding a bit more specialities was warrented.

will 8% specialities be enough to do that?
also, i figure i dont need to use melanoidin if i'm using MO or koelsch. i think those base malts have enough "umff" of their own.

[Mike Neilson]

Ohh this is an Imperial for the Imperial comp? If it is, 40% Dark Crystal will do!! ;) Oh and loads of Smoothcone for bitterness and late additions and 4 tablespoons of table salt for your water additions.

[Mark Kessell]

*slaps forehead*

[Reviled]

Hahaha, you evil bastard Mike ;o)

Mark - 40% crystal????? Someones brewed a recipe like that? Was it 300 odd IBU to cut through it all? Jeezuz, seems like way, way, WAY too much!

[Mark Kessell]

40% specialities. not just crystal.

http://hopville.com/recipe/154759/american-amber-ale-recipes/august...
http://hopville.com/recipe/161661/american-amber-ale-recipes/extra-...
http://hopville.com/recipe/113001/american-amber-ale-recipes/jamils...

lots on that site sit at about 20%+ from what i can see. hense my thread.

[Mike Neilson]

Dont worry about those recipes as you dont tend to know or get in contact with those guys. Use the knowledge on here.

[Reviled]

Agree with Mike, take every recipe from the internet with a grain of salt, cos theyre not using the same ingrediants as us, american malts are different!

The people on here are using all the ingrediants youre likely to use! So the info is more relevant!

Also - I wouldnt really call Munich a specialty malt?? I dunno?