Adding yeast at bottling time

[JR]

Have spoken to a couple of people in the last few days that add some larger yeast when bottling bottle conitioned beers (and Martin Townshend just mentioned it in another thread today)

I have a question - Larger yeasts tend to be fairly attenuative, if you add some to a beer fermented with a less attenuative yest strain wont the larger yeast ferment it down further than you intended it to go, would you end up with thinner beer or overcarbonated beer as a result or does that just not happen?

 

Reason I ask is I am going to be cold conditioning a Scotch ale, fermented with a low attenuating scottish ale yeast,  for a couple of months in the secondary and after that long it might need a little fresh yeast to get it botle conditioned. Should I use the same yest I fermented it with, or the easy option of adding some dried larger yeast (or us05)?

 

or should I bottle it first, keep it warm for a couple of weeks then cold condition it in the bottle for a couple of months.

 

[JoKing]

I'll tell you one of my experiences with using lager yeast to bottle:

 

I brewed a Quadruple that finished at 1.018 and used W34/70 to help carbonate it. I used a small amount of sugar at bottling time, and the original yeast didn't cut it (this is why I added the lager yeast). In the end, the beer has become extremely overcarbonated. So yeah - it does change things a bit. The mouthfeel is pretty awesome once the carb drops out a bit - so I don't think it changes that (too much).

 

Smaller beers (like Townshend) would have less residual sugar, so the lager yeast probably does have a crack at it... but there's not really enough to make a difference. i.e. 1.6 gravity points equals 1 vol. CO2 - so to overcarb a beer, you'd be looking at a further 4 points to make it really fizz... and I dont think that there would be that much available.

 

It sort of explaines why when my one finished at 1.018, I added anoungh sugar to get to about 3 vols of CO2, but the W34/70 took it down to 1.015, leaving me with 5 vols of CO2 in the beer. I would have been better off adding the lager yeast without any sugar.

[Stu McKinlay]

as i started reading this something went through my mind... it was your last sentence!

 

You've made a good point about perceived mouthfeel too.  A little bit of carbonation lifts mouthfeel but a lot of carbonation drops mouthfeel.

 

 

Simple answer JR: I'd use standard bottle conditioning practice. Add a little sugar, bottle condition warm and then cold condition.  Seems to work nicely for Emerson's. And always did for me before I had kegs.

[Reviled]

Was that the one you entered in the WBC jo??

[JoKing]

Yep.

[Reviled]

Far out 5 volumes bro?? Id believe it too, it was like a volcano in the mouth!

 

Quite odd tho, cos the original bottle you gave me took like 3 months to carbonate, so much so the PET bottle was squishy for ages!! Now when I squeeze it its rock hard (yep ive still got one - guessing I should vent it a few times? haha)

[dennis mathews]

I'm no expert, but the only reasons why you would add extra yeast at bottling is because :

1. the brew has been filtered and all yeast is removed,

2. it is a high alcohol brew and the original yeast has succumbed,

3. to alter the flavour.

If it isn't necessary then why do it?

[Martin townshend]

The lager yeast we use is very nuetral. It simply chomps away at the small amount of sugar, (which we change slightly depending on the brew in gms/L,) and, like the sugar soln, imparts little, if any flavour. One 11gm pack will work for us to bottle up 300L. Fineing out the primary yeasts with chilling leaves minimal sediment with stuff all wastage.

This has come thru practice, allows for consitency and remeoves the need for extraneous CO2.

As regards the point the lager yeast will eat up any residual sugars left by less attenuative primary fermentation yeasts, this is pretty minimal. Experience has shown how to handle this and understanding how ones primary yeasts opperate allow for good secondary fermentation practices.

(Amen to Mahy)

[Soren]

If you, as you say, are going to cold condition for a couple of months before bottling I would definitely recommend adding some fresh yeast. Especially if your primary yeast is highly flocculent?

I have had many a beer not carbonate after this exact process: High alcohol beers, cold conditioned for a few weeks and then bottled without fresh yeast. The latest one is a tripel, which after 3 weeks in the bottle have not done anything but turn the beer into an aldehyde bomb. No fizz what so ever. So, as soon as I get off my ass I will have to open up the bottles and add more yeast.

What yeast to use? I just use what ever I have on hand. Primary would be preferred but if you're using more attenuative strain, add a little less priming sugar. It should start chomping on the residual sugar left after primary, but the effect is probably pretty minimal, as Martin explains.

[JR]

Thanks for all the replies.

Looks like I will not be bottling before next year now so bottling first is not an option (this time, but in the future will prob be my method)

 

I will just make a little starter of the primary yeast (scottish ale yeast) and let it finish out completely then add a couple of teaspoons of the settled out yest at bottling time.  I'll stick with the primary yeast as its a 1.100 beer fermented with a not so attenuative yeast down to 1.028 - lots of stuff for a lager yeast to eat