Radler - the story unfolds

[Geoff Griggs]

This is quite amazing. See attached file (you may need to download it and open it with Adobe Reader)

The sooner this lunacy is challenged and defeated the better!

[Tony]

Brian Blake is the managing director, I think we should address our concerns to him.

[Reviled]

She so badly just fobbed you off bro, what a cow!

[Green Man Brewery]

We agreed to no longer sell our Green Man "......." but to rebrand and name it Cyclist on a set date. However we were unwilling to be forced into recalling any stock which was already out in the market place. This is the reason you will be able to find a very limited supply of the old brand in a number of outlets. The New Green Man Cyclist had sold out over the past couple of weeks due to a surge of interest (funny how national media coverage helps sales) We are currently planning a limited re-release later this week if anyone might be interested in.

[Tony]

Yup, what did you expect, Tyler. It's an undefendable position they're in, she never was going to answer my questions, which is exactly why I posed them, to see what their response was going to be.

[Dai]

Neil Miller on Nation Radio at the moment (4:50pm) about Green Man and radler... May have to get audio files to hear. Basically summarising what has already been said though...

[Geoff Griggs]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/aft/2009/04/27/the_panel_pa...

Neil's piece on Radler is 10 minutes and 45 seconds in.

[Tony]

Ladies and Gents, the story unfolds, here is the reply I just got back from Simon Power. Green Man, can you pursue this on a business level? Do you need help?

Please don't let this case drop guys, I strongly believe it is the fine edge of a wedge. I am talking to the SOBA members and beers fans in general, don't let apathy diminish our choice of good beer.

[Greig McGill]

Good stuff Tony!

Fear not, the issue is not being dropped. It's just entered a process that, for reasons which will become clear shortly, neither I nor any of the SOBA committee, can really comment on publicly.

Rest assured, as soon as I have something I *can* comment on, I shall update you all here.

G.

[JoKing]

Good work to the both of you - I'm behind this 1000%

[Geoff Griggs]

Here are some readers' comments to my column on the Stuff website

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/2336284/How-can-a-compa...

..................................

Wayne Leong #18 04:49 pm Apr 20 2009
Great, from now on, I will vote with my wallet - no more DB products.

Jono Corfe #17 11:12 am Apr 16 2009
I suppose this spat has a precedent in the Budvar v Budweiser debate. The brewing giant Budweiser has been fighting court battles internationally with the Czech state owned brewer Budvar, about the use of the term Budweiser. Although Budweiser is a weak, pale imitation of its former self and is brewed mainly with rice and other adjuncts, it feels because it has made its fortune on the name that it should be able to copyright it internationally. Every time Budvar enters a new market, it rightly calls itself Budweiser, as a beer from Budweiss should. Every time they do, Budweiser sues them. Most countries have allowed this to happen.

Ironically, DB holds the distribution rights to Budvar in New Zealand, but it seems that they have interpreted this as a precedent to fly in the face of common sense here as well.

I feel chaps like Geoff Griggs are doing their very best to educate the NZ public on beer matters but it is an uphill battle. Well done Geoff and fight the good fight.

Tony #16 10:13 am Apr 16 2009
Jono (#5), you will find that nobody objected because nobody likely knew about it. I'd have thought reasonable objections after the fact should prompt a review.

Jono Corte (#8) Yeah, I was a bit peeved of the doppelbock abv too, particularly considering I'm a fan of the style. Maybe I should trademark 'rauchbier'. It's a good style but few in New Zealand make it. Really, 5 years ago nobody would really know what a witbier or weissbier was, or what the difference between the two is. Now they are popping up sporadically. It would seem that public ignorance (through no fault of their own thank you mass produced brewing culture) should not be a reason to trademark words such as these. Imagine the furore if it were a Maori word they tried to trademark...

Dagar (#15): Green Man does make great beer. So does Emersons. Aside from my homebrew, I only buy from microbreweries. It's disappointing that they can only afford to be narrowly distributed as I hear there's some rippers up north.

Dagar #15 09:45 am Apr 16 2009
This is crazy. How can Clare Morgan honestly say what words mean something to New Zealanders? Radler is simply Radler, a style of beer. You would ask for a radler like you would ask for any other drink overseas. No-one would bat an eyelid and you would get the "house" radler. It is as much a trademark as "pilsner", "savignon blanc" or any other style of drink. Shame on Clare Morgan for trying imply that kiwis no nothing about beer unless her and her brewery "teach us". They may have the copyright, but it is a joke.

PS Green man makes fantastic beer and all beer-lovers should try to get a hold of some.

Mike #14 09:02 am Apr 16 2009
If memory serves, approx 18 months ago, DB and Lion Nathan had a legal spat of Lions use of "Sun" in its Mac's Sundance beer. At the time DB claimed to have ownership of the "Summer" theme through its Monteiths Summer ale product. That case was found in Lion's favour (and then again when DB appealed). It is a shame that Green Man breweries doesn't have the same fighting fund as it's counterparts.

What does strike me as interesting, is that the Montieth's Pilsner has not caused DB the same "cause for concern". Is this not exactly the same situation.

Mel #13 08:59 am Apr 16 2009
@ John Turnip #11 - fantastic idea. I hope SOBA or one of the other brweries tries it... Could be interesting...
Random #12 08:59 am Apr 16 2009

They must have muppets working DB's PR department. Total fail, again!
John Turnip #11 07:58 pm Apr 15 2009

I've lived in Bavaria; 'Radler' = 'shandy'.

SOBA should have a crack at trademarking the word 'shandy'; if that gets thrown out they can suggest that the IPONZ look at the decision regarding the word 'Radler' and point out that IPONZ lack cultural sensitivity. Could be fun to watch.
Really #10 04:22 pm Apr 15 2009

We really can't blame anyone other than the incompetent staff at IPONZ who continue to hold back NZ businesses with ridiculous decisions like this. Bring in the National Razor gang to this bunch of old out of touch farts ASAP!

Jono Corfe #9 02:17 pm Apr 15 2009
By they way, IPONZ's decision regarding the term 'Summer Ale' went in favour of Lion Nathan, not DB. Another example of DB attempting to steamroller its marketing upon the industry.

Jono Corfe #8 02:13 pm Apr 15 2009
That DB was granted copyright over a beer style shows that as a company they don't care enough about the quality of their product to thoughtfully conduct a thorough search into international beer styles at corporate level. It goes the show that DB have the laughable belief that they are leaders in beer and beer quality. You cannot really blame IPONZ for not looking into beer styles thoroughly, after all they would have to deal with a a million esoteric products, so they can't be reasonably expected to be experts in them all.

DB need to get off their high horse and concentrate on making quality products for a change, instead of trying to screw out the maximum profit for their shareholders. That way they might have realised that their Monteiths Dopplebock was at least 0.7% abv under international style guidelines. In this case they just didn't want to pay the extra excise tax on the alcohol.

No just shame on you DB, but also lift your game.

shermo #7 02:09 pm Apr 15 2009
A fine example of the corruption of intellectual property law.

Sam #6 01:58 pm Apr 15 2009
SOBA - how cool is that?! What a brilliant acronym for a society that represents drinking alcohol!

More to the point, the Monteith's Radler tastes nasty. I would like to say I'm boycotting Monteith's as a result of their arrogance, but I don't drink the stuff.

A lot of the smaller breweries produce a much better product for around the same price. Maybe I'll give Green Man a try...

Jono #5 01:34 pm Apr 15 2009
Just having a quick look at the trademark - its been registered since June 2004. It became registered because no brewery objected to it. It looks like the only way to get round this is for everyone to bring out a "Radler style" beer - making it a common name - like Rollerskates and sellotape. Let the brewing begin!

xylus #4 01:22 pm Apr 15 2009
There is a 'barefoot radler' beer i saw in aussie last month.

Al #3 01:08 pm Apr 15 2009
Pretty unfair to the brewery when it is a recognised beer style.

As target would say "Shame on you DB"...

Bryan #2 12:51 pm Apr 15 2009
What other beer styles have DB's lawyers trademarked? Did they sit down with the International Beer Guide and make a list of every style that wasn't already on the NZ market, and attempt to trademark the lot?

Nick+ #1 12:34 pm Apr 15 2009
You fail to discuss what the IPONZ reason for granting this is. The issue you raise is clear, but you have not covered all the angles. What was IPONZ reasoning? They wouldn't let Lion "own" Summer Ale, so why the change?

[Denise Garland]

David Wood doing his part for the exposure of the Radler saga:

http://www.salient.org.nz/columns/radler-rant

[James P]

Oops seems if you are holding a beer, or in the company of said beverage you are restricted in your ability to use the term "Yeah right"

Trade Mark Details
Trade Mark Number (210) 602673 Current Status Registered
TM Search Text YEAH RIGHT
Trade Mark Type Trade Mark Non-Convention, WORD
Trade Mark Nature
Use Statement (ii) proposed to be used by the proprietor(s), (being the applicant)

Filed (220) 09-NOV-1999
Renewed Until 09-NOV-2016

Marks , Device and Device Descriptors (532)
YEAH RIGHT

Classification System | Class (511) Specification of Goods and Services
4|32 beers