Moderation Pale Ale

[Reviled]

For those who have been to Mt Tamborine, youve most likely tried their Moderation pale ale, its basically like an IPA in terms of hop aroma and flavour, but it only weighs in at 3.3%

I want to try and replicate something like this as I love what it stands for, a true session beer but not compromising on flavour or aroma!

Ive been thinking cos of the low OG, full late hopping may be a good idea? but ive read that with full late hopping the bitterness can disappear over time? Is this true? and how much does it disappear? like completely???

Ill probably be trying to fine tune such a beer and have this as a house ale, next to my Cream ale which will soon become a regular...

Hop wise will probably look at Simcoe, Amarillo, and Centennial...

Cheers guys :o)

[Stu McKinlay]

I've already tried it. 20L of Stanely Green wort shipped to me. Passed it on to my brother who fermented it with dry yeast and some dry hopping (I'd asked him to just ferment it and not play around with it but he's never been good at taking instructions). Turned out really good so I'm definitely thinking about it.

[Soren]

that is a good idea but with an IPA I would pimp the malt bill with some carapils, although it sounds like you don't like that:-) PKB I could imagine tasting stunning "watered down" but an IPA would probably become too dry and weak... I'd probably also pimp the hops a little bit. In theory you'll be cutting the bitterness in half but the perceived bitterness wont be half because of the lower gravity.
And I'd definitely do the watering down pre-ferment, unless you have the equipment to get all oxygen out of solution before adding it.

keep us posted, interesting experiment!

[Reviled]

Heres what ive been thinking...

3.4kg Golden Promise
320g Munich II
200g CaraPils
80g CaraRed

FWH - 6g Columbus 14.2%, 6g Simcoe 12.2%
30- 12g Amarillo 8.6%, 12g Simcoe 12.2%
15 - 18g Amarillo 8.6%, 18g Centennial 9.7%, 18g Simcoe 12.2%
5 - 18g Centennial 9.7%, 18g Columbus 14.2%
Dry - 30g Amarillo, 12g Centennial, 12g Columbus, 20g Simcoe

That gives me around 100 IBU's and an OG of around 1045, and im thinking I could mash higher and use something like 1272 - American Ale II yeast instead of S-05 to give it more body and mouthfeel, hopefully stop it around 1016 or even higher to hold up the hops...

Thoughts?

[Soren]

I've never tried, but a 1.045 with 100 IBU sounds excessive to me, if there is such a thing...:) I might start with 70 or so.
Stopping at 1.016 is only 63% attenuation which, in my experience, is very low for 1272, but mashing at 71C might do the trick...
you didnt want to try that water trick?
sounds really tasty though!

[Reviled]

100 IBU and 1045 SG doesnt seem to bad compared with 256 IBU and 1071 SG?

Im just thinking when I brewed the Pliny clone, it seemed excessive, but it was balanced nicely when it all came together, the OG:BU ratio is actually lower than the pliny clone, so I reckon it could be a good starting point.. I dont want to pussy out ;o)

And yeah, thinking about mashing at around 69-70*c..

[Soren]

"100 IBU and 1045 SG doesnt seem to bad compared with 256 IBU and 1071 SG?"
I doubt your Pliny would have been anywhere near 256 IBU's, as it is not possible to get up there without adding alpha acid concentrates or what ever they are called...:) no matter how many hops you put in it would probably not be more than 80, especially in a 1071 brew. In a 1045 brew it's a lot easier to disolve the AAs and you will get closer to the theoretical IBU level. The perceived bitterness will be much bigger than in the pliny, me thinks...
But go for it, I have yet to taste an IPA that was too bitter:P

[Reviled]

Hmm, you make a pretty good point there about isomerisation Soren...

Oh well, im just gonna put my tooth enamel on the line here and try it anyways ;o) If its too bitter I can allways learn from it and scale it back a bit...

[denimglen]

I reckon the water trick is the go, brew an ipa, split it 50-50 ferment 10L at normal strength then water down the other 10L, that way if it sucks you've got 10L of IPA :-P If you were ultra dedicated you could also steep some extra carapils/crystal, boil it, and dump it in with the low OG batch.

I agree with Soren, 100IBU might be a touch excessive (tastes depending of course) but I think it may take away from the whole 'drinkability' of it, mainly cause in a 1.035 beer 100IBU is gonna seem like a lot more than in a 1.065 beer. I would keep the IBU:OG ratio the same if I was brewing it. Also if you're brewing a 1.045 beer why not let it attenuate out a little more and just have an overhopped but slightly lower alcohol APA?... Just my 2c gee.

[denimglen]

Oh by the way, the recipe I mentioned above was for a beer called 'How to Disappear' from Brew Dog. Here's what I've got written down, but take it with a grain of salt cause I wrote it out while listening to the podcast at work.

120hL batch

160kg Maris Otter
25kg Wheat Malt
100kg Caramalt (can't remember colour)
10kg Crystal (again can't remember colour)
10kg Amber (think it was around 50L/100EBC)
5kg Chocolate

Mash at 66.5C - OG 1.037 -> 1.010

2kg Cent mash hop
3kg Cent FWH
1kg Cent + 4kg Columbus @ 60
2kg Cent + 2kg Columbus @ 30
3kg Cent + 3kg Columbus @ 0
10kg Columbus dry hop.

Sorry haven't written down how many IBU.

May be a little inspiration or something, or not. Haha.

[Reviled]

lol that how to disappear is like 1000 IBUs or something isnt it??

I dunno, im gonna go with 100 IBU and see how it turns out, i see what youre saying about drinkability but I reckon if the hop layering and malt backbone is good it will hold up!

[jt]

Ah, if you want to replicate the beer, maybe ask the brewers ?
If they're not too forthcoming, maybe ask for at least some guidlines on grist, gravity and hops

If that fails, maybe ask the Aussie beer lovers what they reckon ?

[Reviled]

I had a brainwave, I suddenly realised the other night that Rye could be just what im looking for to give me that body to hold up extreme hopping in a small beer...

So ive come up with this - Im gonna call it the Sly guy Rye IPA ;oP lofl

2.7kg Global Kolsch Malt
750g Rye
190g Cara Red
100g Cara Munich III
50g Global Munich

60 - 6g Columbus, 6g Chinook
45 - 8g Simcoe
30 - 12g Columbus, 12g Chinook
15 - 40g Cascade, 18g Amarillo, 12g Chinook
5 - 12g Columbus, 12g Simcoe
0 - 40g Cascade
Dry - 18g Columbus, 24g Cascade, 24g Amarillo, 8g Chinook

Wyeast 1272