Lowest Mash Temp For The Most Fermentable Wort

[Mike Neilson]

Im about to brew an Double IPA and want it to finsh around 1.008 - 1.010 whats the lowest mash temp you think you can mash at and for how long?

[JoKing]

I reckon 65 for an hour should be plenty. I doubt that you'll get down to 1008 though. 1.010 - 1.012 is what I'm shooting for. If you do the iodine test after an hour, and it stays brown - skip the mash out and it'll be as fermentable as all hell.

[Mike Neilson]

Yeah I seen on Ross one on craftbrewer he mash at 62 for 70mins Im woundering if thats the go?

[JoKing]

Could be I dont know how much difference it would make as 65 is pretty much below the alpha range. You'll get a temperature drop from 65 down to 63 if you leave the lid slightly open on the mash tun. I've been down to 64 a few times, but it takes ages for the starches to convert, and I've had serious haze from mashing too low as well.

Choice is yours at the end of the day... As they say: "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

[Reviled]

When I was asking a guy about Barley wines he said 63 should be the lowest you dare go... But I dont have any info to back that up..

[Bambule]

The saison I brewed (admittedly not quite in the Double IPA range) was mashed at 64 Deg for 90 minutes. On both occasions I've brewed it it went from 1.065 to 1.007. My opinion is that it would depend just as much on how attenuative the strain of yeast your using is as the temp you mash at.

[Father]

Adding to bambule's reply - agree on mash temp - 62to64 range would be fine, check with iodine test from 25 minutes onwards.
The attenuation ability of the yeast will depend on your malt grist ie what percentage of adjuncts are you using malts like crystal/caramalts will hold that final gravity up there, how much oxygen you're getting into the brew, shooting for 10-12ppm will be good, pitch rate of healthy yeast, FAN levels of the malt, yeast strain etc etc.

What it really comes down to is the perceived bitterness of the Double IPA and the perceived malt feel rather than actual gravity measurements and IBUs. You could have a 1.012 finishing gravity, but the yeast strain leaves the beer with low malt perception and accentuates the hops, on top of that the IBU's if they are up there will also 'crisp' up the finish as opposed to leaving it 'fat'. Its all about what the palate perceives not
the numbers. the numbers are a great guide for recipe design but its what ends up in the glass that counts.

EXPERIMENT. here's a start ;

Try Wyeast 1056 or 1084 - these are really good attenuators and leave the beer with a crisp clean finish.
Use plenty of fresh yeast and get that oxygen into that fermentor. Grow up a litre of yeast using the smack pack and a low gravity wort - use some hombrew kit and warm water - the gravity isnt too important. When this is away kicking use it about the third day after you pitched the smack pack into the litre. Assuming you're brewing about 20-25 litres this will be a good volume. Remember the higher the gravity your beer wort is the better it is to pitch more yeast than normal and plenty of oxygen. If you really want to ensure a healthy ferment in higher gravity brews add some yeast nutrient to your kettle. Not really necessary in an all grain wort but it might help you sleep at night!

Go for 100% pilsner or lager malt in your grist. Leave any crystal or caramalts out until next time. The high gravity wort will give plenty of colour enough for an IPA.

Add hops (try Pacific Hallertau, NZ Cascade, US Cascade/centennial) at start of boil, thirty minutes, 10 and 5 minutes. Dont worry about dry hopping or fancy hopping at this stage. Go for huge IBUs and say around 1.070 original gravity. A good book on this would be Ray Daniels Designing Great Beers .... awesome

Bottle condition using dextrose (say 8g/litre) - this will also dry out the finish somewhat and give about another 0.3-0.4% alcohol (bonus!).

From there its onwards and upwards. Go for balance but push what you know way beyond what you'd normally do. To get that wow factor you really have to go crazy - dont hold back. If ya cant drink it today, put it away in cellar for a few weeks then have an other go at it.

Anyway thats my two cents worth. Sorry to go on but I2PAs are one of my reall favourites, just dont get to brew them as often.......

Chris

[Kempicus]

we'd love you to brew them commercially.....;0)

[Reviled]

+1

[Father]

Ah.....cheeky bugger. Lets just say we get the chance to brew what we want occasionally in our 200 litre plant - best for me yet was 1.070 OG, 90 IBUs, bottle conditioned, 100% US Centennial all the way through. Still enjoying it 6 months later. You never know what might appear on the Emersons Brewers Reserve tap......ah but they are on and off the tap so quick......shame....but every pilot plant brew is a potential commercial release!
C

[Mike Neilson]

This is the recipe what you think chris?

4.8kg Pale Malt
900g Light Crystal
600g Dextrose

65deg Mash

500g Of Hops at all stages but 75% of IBUs are at the end of boil 15 mins and later
Chinook Centenial Amarillo and Cascade all US
Wyeast Imperial Blend
1.090 - 1.010
81 IBU;s
16L

[Father]

Doesnt look bad. 14% crystal to me is quite high for this style. IMHO if you want it at all cut it back to 5% of total, drop the Dextrose and up the pale malt. 90 to 10 is an apparent attenuation of 88%. Too bloody high for most yeasts. Its hard to get anything doing better than 70-75% in my experience. Up your IBUs at the early stages to balance any lift in the final gravity. I am not familiar with the Wyeast imperial strain....
Sheesh I know its the fashionable (thanks Colin/Luke/Richard) thing to do to put most of your hops at the end buuutttt... I'm a simple guy and like to do the trad thing of spreadiing the hop charges throughout. You'd be amazed at how much flavour comes out of the hop even at 45 minutes of boiling! Research Dogfish's 60,90 and 120 minute IPA beers and question why he does what he does. You can get something similar if you space your hops out every five minutes throughout the boil. Now somebody better shoot me. For an I2PA I'd be shooting for more hops at the start of the boil and the more traditional charges towards the end, otherwise you'll end up with potentially too much flavour and aroma and not enough trad cut through bitterness that an I2PA is screaming out for IMHO.

As far as hop quanities go it will depend on your kettle boil, alpha acids, age of the hop and condition - so best for you to go with your own experince with your setup there.

Any help?

C

[Mike Neilson]

Exactly what I was looking for!! Cheers so much the Imperial strain is the new Private Collection and has an Attenuation of 75-80% And was created for these stlyes of beers. With the dextrose I was hoping it would help attenuation. Im think I may drop it and hope for the best. I might keep to the original hop schedule, on this one and hope luke or someone else who also brews like I do (all hops at end of boil and 60min hops to hit desired IBU count). I love it and I think I speak for everyone on here when a professional brewer can give me (us) guidence on our recipes and techniques Cheers Chris!! Cheers for the Pale Ryder that is in my hands also!!! Bloody brilliant!!