Emersons Pilsner

[Reviled]

Hey guys

Keen to try and make something similair to this, now the site says that they use NZ saaz, but does anyone know what NZ saaz? And/or if they use another type of hop as well?

Cheers

[Adam]

I was told by another brewer that he doesnt like working in cold rooms so uses an ale yeast! On another note i was also told Three Boys uses an ale yeast for their Pils also.

[Kempicus]

and german wheat for their IPA?

[Fairlane]

Yeah I do my Bohemian Pilsener this way also....Triple decoction mash using 100% Pilsener malt and 100% Saaz hops (riwaka), fermented with S-23 and three weeks cold conditioning after bottling.

It makes the brewing day about 2 hours longer but definitely worth it....

dh

[JR]

So it your Bohemian Pils pretty similar to Emerson's Pils? If different how? What temp do you ferment at?

[Fairlane]

Um....to be honest I have'nt tried theirs for a year or so at least....I don't tend to spend a lot of money on beer these days. Well - except for last Thursday night at the Malthouse in Welly anyway... :)

Ferment at 15 deg at the moment as I don't have the capacity to do it any cooler.

[Reviled]

Bump...

Kegged this about a week ago, after cold conditioning for 2 weeks....

Man, what have I done wrong? Nothing like Emersons Pilsner, hop additions I went for were 50g at 60, 25g at 15, and 25g at FO...

The beer has a really pungent minty herbal aroma which is quite unpleasant :o*( Im not sure what to do, whether to try and bottle it from the keg to save on keg space and forget about them for a few months in the hope that this minty herbalness will die down? Or will I not be able to save this beer?

[JoKing]

I used that budvar lager yeast last year with a Pils that turned out pretty crap too. It needed 3 months in the keg to come right. Same type of issue you are describing - minty herbal aroma... If I could d the brew again, I would have fermented at 12degrees instead of 10, I would have pitched a 2L starter at 8degrees instead of a 500ml one and growing it in 20degree wort until active ferment and then cooling. I would have left the brew on the trub for a few weeks after fermentation at 12 degrees aswell. That would have shortened conditioning time.

I guess in the end, I should have not used that strain. Your beer will come right - just give a few months at zero.

[Reviled]

So you reckon its the yeast and not the hops??? I did the same, pitch warm and bring down to ferment temp...

Funny thing is, ive done the same thing with an Oktoberfest, dumped it onto the Pilsner yeast cake and brought down to 10 and its been lagering for only a week and tastes bloody fantastic, thats why I ruled out the yeast??

So a few months you reckon :o*( Shit, maybe I should bottle from the keg to free it up?

[JoKing]

It's not the hops.

Most brewers get used to ale yeasts and how quickly they turn out good tasting bees (especially us05 etc) that they think turning out good lagers is just as easy. I believe you really need to understand all the processes that go on during and after fermentation in order to make an equally good lager. These processes take quite a bit longer with lagers - especially at lower temps.

I think you skipped a vital step in letting the yeast take up all the funk produced during the 1st 2 weeks of fermentation. For your first generation of the yeast - you probably underpitched which is where a lot of that dirty smell in your beer is coming from. When you pitched for your Octoberfest beer - there was plenty of yeast to do the job quite happily without getting stressed like they did in your 1st one.

You needed to leave the brew to lager on the yeast bed for at least 2 weeks after active fermentation to allow the yeast to reabsorb the high alcohols, esters and sulphur compounds in it's search of nutrition when all the sugars had run out. There isn't really a magic time limit for this stage - you rack it off the yeast when it tastes like it is ready.

I reckon your brew will always have a faint taste of herbalness in it - but that is typical of the style anyway: you could bottle it in green bottles and leave it in the sunlight to add to the unusual flavour in there too! It will eventually subside to something more pallatable... just give it time.

[Reviled]

Ok, this is what I did...

Pitched at 24, fermentation was evident after 36 hours, brought down to 10*c... Thinking about it, I most definately underpitched, so this is most likely what stuffed it up?

Fermented at 10*c for 2 weeks, racked into 2ndary at 1019, when SG was reading 1016 brought up to 18*c for diacetyl rest for three days, lagered for two weeks on 2ndary yeast cake... Kegged and carbed...

So I did leave the yeast time to clean up, but obviously not enough time :o(

So the advice is just to leave it and see what comes of it?

[James P]

At 20 - 25C, 12 hours for fermentation to start (sometimes 6), 48 hours for diacetyl rest and a longer lagering period are the only differences for my regime, although "Jamil" uses a similar regime to yours.

I have not used the yeast you used, however found that s23 gives the floral notes if pitched high, then crashed to 10. In my experience esters are reduced if double pitched low, or the temperature is reduce over a period of time from 20 to 10 (5 days).

[Reviled]

Shit, so is there anyway to get rid of the esters? Its been suggested to get rid of the hop aroma I vent the crap out of the keg till its flat, then recarb it... But will that work for the esters?