Electric Brewing Setup

[Clinton]

Over the past 2 weeks or so I have been looking at making my system fully electric. My proposed setup is as follows:

3000W Element from Ebay, $22 USD with free shipping. According to my calculations, it comes under the Ultra Low Watt Density designation, so it won't scorch the wort. I have also looked at the Camco 3500W ULWD Element from Amazon, which is what I have seen many other brewers using. However, it is around two times the price of the element on Ebay. I have checked my circuit breakers, and all of the wall socket circuits are rated for 20A, so I should be fine there.

To control the element, I intend to construct a box with a standard 3 pin input, leading to a PID, which will control an SSR that will switch the current going to a male IEC socket. Here are some pictures of something similar:

As you can see, the output used in this box is a female socket, which leaves exposed pins, which is not good.

I have done some reading up on the PIDs, and it seems that the cheap Ebay PIDs are not worth the hassle, as they will have compatibility issues with both the temperature probes I intend to use, and they will not natively control an SSR. Many brewers recommend the 'Auber' brand PIDs. These are more expensive, but seem to have less issues. They also have manual control over output, which means you can control boil intensity. The model I am looking at is the SYL-2352.

 

I think any SSR will do, as long as it is 15A or over and is capable of handling 250V. Is there any downfalls to using a 40A SSR when a 25A SSR would do fine, such as lower efficiency, etc? There are hundreds of SSRs for sale on Ebay, most of them are the same as the one in the picture above. They're only $5 or so, so that's no big deal.

 

I will probably use a PT100 temperature probe, which has three wires coming from it. Could a 3.5mm jack be used for quick swapping of probes?

So, does this seem like a good setup? Anything wrong here?

Lastly, if I do go through with this, I will most likely be ordering an Auber PID. If anyone would like to order one with me, we could split the shipping costs. Thanks in advance for any help.

[Clinton]

Thanks for the info. I intend to use IEC320 cables and connectors, all rated for 16A. This includes all connectors and cables. Acquire sells an IEC320 C19 to C20 extension cable which will work well for the supply from the controller box to the element. Jaycar sells 20A rated mains cable, so that is what I will use for any DIY wiring that has any big load. I guess I'll have to do some investigating to see what cabling and sockets I've got and whether they are suitable.

I already have an old CPU cooler that I've ripped apart for the SSR heatsink. The Auber PID outputs 12V, so all is good there. 

If it ends up costing too much to set up everything safely, I might not bother.

[mattd2]

Hey Clinton, have you started buying stuff or just kicking round ideas at the mo? And where are those pic from?
Just have a few comments on your plan:
In the photo I think the black socket is the input and the white is the output (that is if I understood you "not good" comment above).
The Auber brand PID are recomended because they have the best level of documentation on how to actually use it, I have a Sestos one and if I had no background knowledge on those thing it woukld be a nice paperweight. The REX models from what I have seen are difficult to ensure you get a SSR control one and don't have the manual control mode = I would agree that for ease of use vs cost the Auber is a good choice!
I am pretty sure most common household individual sockets are rated for 10 amps, where you say "all of the wall socket circuits are rated for 20A" are you meaning the circuit breaker is 20 amps or the actual sockets are rated for 20 amps. You will need to remove the plastic cover plate to check the socket's rating. All the installs with elements over 2200W I have seen have had to have a sparky wire in a new dedicated higher amp circuit to a single higher amp socket (not that too many people have gone down that track), myself I am controlling 2x 2000W elements through standard 10 amp sockets (8.5A per socket) but still from the same 20A CB.

[Richard Jack]

Just adding my own experience - Sestos are pretty much a copy of the Auber PIDs. I used the Auber manuals to set up my Sestos units. I had no prior experience with PIDs. I felt vaguely guilty about the situation, but not guilty enough to pay the difference.

[mattd2]

Yeah, there are slight differences (mostly the only °C thing for the Sestos) but nothing that can't be overcome with a few quick questions on here!

I basically did the same used both the Sestos and Auber manual to set mine up. I got mine of Ebay and for the price of an Auber PID (not including shipping) I got the PID, K-type sensor, SSR, heatsink and shipping! 

[Clinton]

I haven't bought anything yet, as I have to make sure everything will work before investing too much money into it. 

The pictures are from fishing.net.nz, and yes, I may have misunderstood them!

Your idea of 2x2000w elements is great, I may end up stealing that. The wire in the intended brew location seems to be up to the job, but when I get the 20A wire from Jaycar, I will compare it to confirm.

[mattd2]

What I have is a "3 heat" element which is basically 2 elements installed in one fitting (if that makes sense), bought it of trade me as new old stock.

I'm sure that your existing house wiring should be up to scratch as that should have been spec'd as per what the CB would trip at. We are meaning the actual sockets you plug the element into, most household sockets are rated only for 10A per socket. I think 15A sockets are usually well identified, and a 15A plug will not fit into a 10A socket (longer & thicker earth pin).

The danger is DIY wiring a 20A lead to a 10A plug to get it to fit in a 10A socket = don't do that!

[Clinton]

Yea, I get what you guys are talking about. Maybe I should invest in a 15A socket, or even a 20A RCD socket.

Also, is a the element I linked ok to use with a 240V supply? It says 220V, but I have heard that 220/240V is interchangeable.

[mattd2]

OK take this all with a grain of salt (since I am still green on this myself and can't actually look at the Ebay listing due to work retrictions!)

I am guessing the element you linked is from the USA. The USA have a messed up power distribution that has 2 hot phases and nuetral. Basically their standard volatge now is 120V between hot and nuetral and 240V between hots (they are 180° out of phase - i.e. when one is +120V the other is -120V). Historically the standard voltage has drifted up from 110V H-N which gives the 220V H-H. I have seen the H-H voltage be stated as 220V, 230V & 240V.

I would guess the element would be ok at NZ 230V but I would like others to put their $0.02 in about that!

[Clinton]

That sounds correct. I have read a few forums, and that style of element (I can only assume they are from the same manufacturer) seems to work in Australia. It's only $23, so I'll get over it if it doesn't work.

[Sam]

Hi Clinton

Cool seeing all these new toys / projects

If your powers not already coming from a RCD you should definitely get one (there's a number of options) especially with all that water and metal. Not too much to pay when you consider if something goes wrong  it might save your life.

That photo you found of that enclosure above makes me nervous and twitchy just looking at it!

One major thing shown in the photo is the enclosures input / power in should be a plug / male, not female. To supply power to the female socket on left in photo you would need a suicide lead to attach it, so that one is looking particularly dangerous and illegal

Are you thinking of using the 20A cable to replace existing wiring to the power point you want to use?

Important to remember there's no such thing as a 20 amp cable off a roll, it depends on its length etc. 

I had a quick look on the general cable calculator (from before the cables were down-rated to even less)  for a rough idea and a 15m run can drop from over 20 amps rating to just 14 amps if its fully surrounded by insulation (possibly when its going down your wall), a few traps like that to keep in mind

[Haish]

Power goes in via the male IEC socket and comes out from the 3 pin socket, nothing dodgy about it at all.

[Sam]

Hi Haish, 

Yea nothing dodgy about the way your saying it should work, the description makes it sound like the opposite though;

"which will control an SSR that will switch the current going to a male IEC socket" and partly the bit about the output leaving exposed pins to.

There's a few other things too like either the wires going to the SSR are the wrong colour or its switching the neutral, hard to see all of what's going on through the pictures

Even the ones done well are often illegal unless the items that require a sdoc have them, I tried to find a sdoc for a sestos PID but couldn't find one. My main concern with no sdoc is in the slim chance of a fire in / near the controller, is a good chance of not getting any insurance etc