liquid yeast

[Ian]

Hi folks,
I need a wee bit of advice please. I am close to having myself all geared for my first full mash brew - like planning a flight to the moon if you're a fist timer at AG. Anyhow, I got some grain, hops etc. etc. from Malthouse in Dunedin and with is liquid yeast. There is also some malt extract to make a starter but I was advised by a buddy to just add the yeast and leave out making a starter in the interests on simplicity and avoiding possible bacterial infection. I'm not sure whether it is Whitelabs - it doesn't say, but the liquid is in a wee glass vial (maybe 50 ml or so?). Since I know BA about liquid yeasts and am keen to get a drinkable first AG brew, I wondered whether some of you old hands could advise me how to go about it. Can I take the little bottle of yeast out of the fridge a couple of hours before it is needed and pitch it without making a starter and do I pitch the entire wee bottle for a 20L brew? Any advice hugely welcomed.
Cheers,
Ian

[Reviled]

I would make a starter, not to mention that the yeast from Dunedin Malthouse has been dodgy in the past, but it is the only way to guarantee your yeast is viable...

If you just pitch directly it could result in a big lag time, or worse, nothing happening...

[jt]

Hi Ian, sounds like it's one of DMH's recultured Wyeast's yeasts.
There's been some debate about them in the past and I know Mr Cherry had a problem with one.
If you used it I think you'd need to make a starter.
You're not really inviting an infection by making a starter, well not anymore than you would by brewing a full size batch.
If you're solid with your sanitation go for it. If you're uncertain, get some dried yeast.
What's the recipe anyway ?

[Ian]

Well, I have two recipes and ingredients to match: one is Sunsplash Golden Ale and the other is Black Sheep Ale and the two yeasts are labelled American ale yeast and Irish ale yeast respectively. They are $8.50 a pop but if there is any doubt about it I'd sooner go for dry yeast for my first batch and try these anothr time. My mate in Aussie brews commercially in a small way and tells me that wonderful proper dried yeasts are available nowadays and that's what they use - and the same goes for using hop pellets versus the flowers. I received hop flowes for my brews so I guess I should boil them in a muslin bag to prevent a blocked cooler?
Where do you guys get your full mash ingredients generally that is good to deal with and has good stocks and reasonable prices?
Cheers,
Ian

[MrC]

I would definatley make a starter with those little vials. I believe that the amount of yeast in those little vials is not enough to ensure a healthy fermentation.

I had a reasonable result with one of those vials by creating a 1L starter. I started with 0.5L for three days and then increased it to 1L for another three days.

Personally, I would stick with a dried yeast for your first AG batch (whatever yeast you're familiar with). That way if there are any problems with the beer it will be easier to identify the culprit. Unless, of course, the beer your brewing requires special yeast that is not available in dried form. My first AG batch was enough of a learning curve without adding liquid yeast into the equation.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Ian]

Sensible advice - thanks for the encouragement.
Cheers
Ian

[denimglen]

"Personally, I would stick with a dried yeast for your first AG batch (whatever yeast you're familiar with). That way if there are any problems with the beer it will be easier to identify the culprit. Unless, of course, the beer your brewing requires special yeast that is not available in dried form. My first AG batch was enough of a learning curve without adding liquid yeast into the equation."

Agree with this 100%, for the sake of simplicity just dump a pack of SafAle US-05 into each, should be suitable for both brews. In a pack of dry yeast there's enough yeast for five gallons up to about 1.060 OG I think.

For the buzz on yeast and yeast starters this site is the business -

http://www.mrmalty.com/ - especially the pitching calculator

[Tony]

Hi Ian

yes I would also suggest a starter. Just follow the basic principles of sanitisation, as with all yeast and you should be fine. In essence, anything that comes in contact with the yeast, sanitise. A starter has 2 main functions-
1. It gets your yeast cell count up and going.
2. It shows you that the yeast is working and healthy.

boil a mini brew, with about a litre of extract wort, cool it down to about 20 deg and pitch the yeast in it. I use an old 3 litre, drink container. I have drilled a hole in the lid to put an airlock into. That way I can see the yeast is activating.

When you pitch it into your fermenter, give it a stir with a sterilised stirer, to get it well oxygenated. Make sure your pitch temp is not too far from the starter temp- within about 5 deg is ok. That way you won't shock the yeast.

Have a look at Palmer's- How to brew, online, if you need any more info.

[Soren]

I will join the masses and recommend a starter. IMO these small vials do not have enough yeast to finish the job. Make sure your starter is thoughroughly aerated, I do this by putting a lid on my starter bottle (I think its 3 litres) and shke the hell out of it, I open it to get more oxygen in it, close it snad shake it again, and repeat. Likewise, make sure your wort is aerated before you pitch, basically same technique on a larger scale.

Also, make sure your wort (and starter) is cold before you aerate as you want to avoid hot side aeration. Basically if you aerate hot wort you get "bad" oxygenation that will not be eaten by the yeast and carry oxygenated flavours into your finished beer. I think 27C is the commonly accepted threshold for good/bad aeration.

[Ian]

Thanks for all the advice on liquid yeast - that's all heaps of good advice and I value the input.
Cheers,
Ian