Moderation Pale Ale

[Reviled]

For those who have been to Mt Tamborine, youve most likely tried their Moderation pale ale, its basically like an IPA in terms of hop aroma and flavour, but it only weighs in at 3.3%

I want to try and replicate something like this as I love what it stands for, a true session beer but not compromising on flavour or aroma!

Ive been thinking cos of the low OG, full late hopping may be a good idea? but ive read that with full late hopping the bitterness can disappear over time? Is this true? and how much does it disappear? like completely???

Ill probably be trying to fine tune such a beer and have this as a house ale, next to my Cream ale which will soon become a regular...

Hop wise will probably look at Simcoe, Amarillo, and Centennial...

Cheers guys :o)

[denimglen]

"Ive been thinking cos of the low OG, full late hopping may be a good idea? but ive read that with full late hopping the bitterness can disappear over time? Is this true? and how much does it disappear? like completely???"

It seems too, but the aroma/flavour still goes first. Let's face it though, at 3.3% it ain't gonna last long enough for the IBUs to drop out :-P

I did an American Mild and while the hop flavour and aroma isn't too bad there's just nothing to carry it, carapils carapils and more carapils I reckon.

If you listen to The Session in Brewing Network when the guys from Brew Dog were on he gives one of Brew Dog recipes for a low alcohol highly hopped beer, but I can remember if the grist was light or dark. May be some good inspiration though.

[Reviled]

Carapils you say? So 3% may not be enough?? I dont want to get too much of that caramel flavour I found in yours and Martins tasty APA, but at the same time I dont want it to be a watery hop soup...

I was thinking of just using the same percentages as my USIPA grist? And just scaling it back, but it may not be that simple?

Good point re the keg prolly not lasting long either ;o)

[denimglen]

My mild had 4.6% caramunich and 4.6% C120 and is ultra lacking, no carapils though. AFAIK carapils just adds body, and little sweetness/flavour? I hardly use it so can't really comment. Or you could add some maltodextrin powder at kegging to taste? I dunno, just ideas really.

Got an IPA on tap at the moment? Why not water it down and see what you think of the malt side of things?

[Reviled]

Hmm, I reckon that whole Carapils adds a little flavour and is sposed to be nuetral thing is a load of bollocks, to me, I can taste it, hardout!!! I get a massive caramel flavour off of it!

I could push it up to maybe 6-7%, I wouldnt want to go more than that I dont think...

And no - I dont have an IPA on tap atm, otherwise that wouldnt be a bad idea I guess...

[Stu McKinlay]

I'm not sure of the science behind it but watering down post fermentation doesn't work like it does with pre-fermentaion. I've tried that also. It tastes watery, even at the same 50/50 ratio.

I discussed it with Richard Emerson after hearing about M'lord and he said for them it was purely an issue of removing oxidation issues through fermenting it after watering it down.

[denimglen]

I just watered down my ipa 50-50 ie from 6.6 to 3.3%ABV, and in theory from 1.012 to 1.006.

Yeah a touch watery but I'd drink it over my US mild. Interestingly the hop aroma didn't 'drop' by half, but the hop flavour kinda did.

If I was to brew it like this I'd bump up the crystal a touch and maybe the mash temp up a degree to get it to finish in the 1.010 range.

[Stu McKinlay]

I agree. EVERYTHING adds/changes flavour.

Leaving a beer in the keg for a week changes the flavour.
Letting it sit in a glass for half an hour, even if you keep it at the same temperature, changes flavour.
So carapils certainly must change the flavour.

[Stu McKinlay]

I mixed 10L of my second ever PKB (and the first one called PKB) wort with 10L of water... then fermented it. Went from 6% to 3%, so essentially became an american Mild. It was flippin' fantastic, sam TheGrandmaster can attest to that - he came to a party and never moved from within reaching distance of the beer engine - except to get food or go to the loo!

You could try that... make a full strength IPA and then split the ferment across two fermenters, one at full strength and one at half strength.

[Reviled]

Hang on...... So youre saying brew a full Strength IPA, then mix 10L with water pre-fermentation?????

Thats a bloody interesting idea! Did you up the hopping or anything to counter this? I guess it would be easy to just add a shitload of dry hop???

Hmmm, my minds ticking over now!!

[Matthew]

The APA I just did came up 4L short after the boil so I topped up with water. I thought I had over done it so I decided to dry hop it for more flavour/aroma. Tasted great yesterday out of the fermenter and bottling tomorrow night. ABV's right down around 3.9% at the mo.

[Stu McKinlay]

I didn't do anything unusual. I just made 30L of the beer I was trying to make (PKB) and then mixed 10L with 10L of water so that I could get two kegs out of it. I'd never tried this before but thought that it'd be worth a crack, I knew English breweries do it (though possibly not to that extent)... it was stunning.

I've since heard that Emerson's did it with their M'Lord mild ale.

[Reviled]

Mean!! its a good idea!!

PKB fresh wort kits anyone? When will Liberty start selling these? ;o) Could be a niche market in NZ Stu!