Belgian Strong

[Reviled]

Hey guys, im piecing together a Belgian Rye recipe which is gonna be my next brew after another Pale Ale, but im not really sure about the hopping cos I never do Belgians :o( I know theyre not supposed to be very bitter, so what sort of IBU/OG ratio would I be looking at here? What hops are good? Ive got some Super Alpha??

This is what im considering for my grist, would love some feedback on it also :o) pretty simple really..

4kg NZ Pils
2kg Rye
500g-1kg Munich??? Not sure how much
500g Brown Sugar
Wyeast 3787
Beer recipator gives me a rough OG of about 1079?? But that may be wrong cos its pretty shit (but free) online software

[Mike Neilson]

Yeah I got Banana!!! And lots of it!!! but I am real partial to banana!! only in wheat beers though!!

[JoKing]

Banana will only be present when the beer is young. I reckon after 3 months of conditioning, it wont be present, and most of the more subtle flavours that you got during fermentation will definately come through.

[Reviled]

What about bubblegum? I got shitloads of that off of Doublehoppys tripel and that was about 2 yrs old..

[JoKing]

Yeah - bubblegum is a pretty soft ester - this yeast doesn't make much of it, and Isoamyl-Acetate is always going to be more noticable. I think it would be difficult to pick up on the Bubblegum in a darker beer... I'm not sure I'd want it in anything other than a Tripel or Gran Cru... or Wit... you know what I mean - there is a fine line between Bubblegum, and Band Aid too. It is still more important IMHO to have a beer with subtle ester development than one with huge amounts of higher alcohols and phenolics... you know what I mean? Maybe go for a strain that produces a bit more funk, like wlp550 if you want noticable esters and phenolics.

I was really happy to be able to get 3787, because I have read so much on how comparitively neutral it was. I have gone into so much effort with my Dubbels in the past to make a really malty fruity flavour, only for the yeast I chose to stuff it all up for me and give me funky headache material beer even at temp like 22 degrees.

Anyway, I digress - Doublehoppy is a star at making Belgians, and has been brewing them since he first started... he'd be the one to talk to regarding how to get what you want out of the yeast. I've just got my fingers crossed that 22 degrees gives me enough Belgian Fruityness over Belgian Phenolicness!

[Doublehoppy]

Ha, I wish!

From memory I fermented that Tripel you tasted around 22C to 24C. I didn't really have a good way of measuring and controlling temperature however, and I tendered to err on the high side, so it was certainly over 20C. The other thing to note was that there was a heck of a lot of yeast. I dumped a fresh wort onto a just completed yeast cake from Tripel batch #1.

Brew Like A Monk has some very interesting information on fermentation temperatures and regimes of the trappists. I'll see what it has to say about Westmalle/Westvleteren/Achel (The later two use the Westmalle strain - Wyeast 3787).

[Reviled]

Def be keen to hear what it says Brett ;o)

[Doublehoppy]

Here you go...

Westmalle Tripel
Pitched at 18C, allowed to rise to 20C, 5 to 6 days.
Secondary ferment 4 weeks at 8C.
Apparent degree of attenuation 88%

Westmalle Dubbel
Pitched at 18C, allowed to rise to 20C, 5 to 6 days.
Secondary ferment 3 weeks at 8C.
Apparent degree of attenuation 87%

Westvleteren 8 (a Dubbel)
Pitched at 20C rises to 28-29C, 4 to 6 days.
Secondary ferment 4-6 weeks 10C.
Attenuation 88%

Achel Bruin Extra
Pitched at 17-18C. Climbs to 22-23C, 7 to 8 days.
Secondary ferment 3-4 weeks 0C (zero)
Attenuation 84%

Note the high temperature in the Westvleteren. Actually, reading this reinforces the need to do a cool secondary fermentation. I usually leave it at room temp as I need my fermentation fridge for the next batch.

[JoKing]

Using sugar should kick it into higher gear - ramping up the temp does as equally good a job.

[Reviled]

Im thinking with my clean primary ferment, gently ramping up to 22*c over the next 2 days, then adding the sugar and letting it go nuts should give me a nice balance of cleanliness and phenols?? Hopefully ;oP lol

[Reviled]

Cheers for the info Doublehoppy, good stuff..

My chest freezer smells like banana's :o( Definately not gonna crank the ferment temp up, ive dialed it back to 19*c.. Boiled up my sugar last night and after letting it cool poured it all over the krausen.. Probably let it come up when its finished with the sugar.. Then dry hop :o)

[JoKing]

I'm starting to think that the banana is due to pitching rate more than fermentation temperature. Look at what Doublehoppy says about the pitching rate for his Tripel... and myself - I stepped the yeast up 3 times (well Christina did) before I pitched it, and I have been up to 23 degrees with no really noticable banana. What banana that was is now gone - and it is smelling more phenolic and stone fruity.

Then go to wlp300 - fermented at 17degrees, and it's as bananary as all hell... but here's the twist: only 500mls starter before pitching...

Makes you think no?

Maybe it's just my beer geek brain and it's the full on geekiness that excites me.

[Reviled]

Possibly, but in saying that I reckon I had a good pitching rate, I only pitched into 1060 and I had a full 1 litre starter which was at full krausen, had about 200mls of yeast in it before I stepped it up to 1 litre??