Recipe Advice Thread

[denimglen]

Thought it might be handy to have a thread for some of the more advanced brewers to give some advice on recipes.

Let's see how it goes eh...

[vdog]

I just had a quick look and your first one is pretty much what I'd expect for a NZPA, and I would have thought it'd turn out nicely. So what is it about the first couple that you haven't enjoyed? Your process will make just as big a difference as a recipe IMO, so maybe if you outline what you're doing (temp control, wort chilling etc) that might help a few of the more experienced guys offer some advice.

 

There's a few guys brewing in South Auckland so it might even be worth trying to wangle an invite to someone's brew day. My little collective won't be doing another until early January, but if you're happy waiting til then you're welcome to come along and see what we do.

[Ray]

Hi Vdog

My last two brews have been overly sweet, homebrewish and not very smooth, hop and malt have not been balanced and just not easily drinkable. They have both fermented fine and bother ended up around 1.010

I would very much appreciate an invite to your brewday in jan PM me if thats cool

As for my process its pretty simple I mash at 65C in my mashtun (converted Igloo) rest and hour,sparge and recirclulate into HLT and boil for 60-90 min with hop additions, chill in bathtub and pitch at 18-20C, and ferment for 1 week plus a week rest before bottling.

I have no immersion chiller or temp control fridge but bath keeps temp pretty stable with ambient temp

There are no nasty flavours as I'm pretty good with sterilization ( starsan everything)

 

[JoKing]

I reckon you have 2 issues with your beer. Everything sounds fine - and your Pale Ale recipe looks sound.

 

So - from your descriptions:

 

"Overly Sweet"... Sounds like this might be diacetyl. A small amount of this can enhance your perception of sweetness in beer. It is the chemical they use in butterscotch lollies to give it the buttery sweetness. It can also clash with your bitterness making the beer seem harsh.

 

"Homebrewish"... This one I would put down to Acetaldehyde. Again, this flavour is a harssh type of alcohol and even in small amounts can destroy the clean flavours in a beer. It is the one flavour that EVERY homebrew picks up along the way (especially with cheap 5g packs of yeast!).

 

I also think there might be a lot of yeast in your bottles that might be murking things up a bit.

 

Your solutions here are to ensure that your wort is thoroughly aerated before you pitch your yeast. Pitch your yeast into your wort at your desired fermentation. Rest your yeast at room temperature for a few hours before you pitch it. Try to keep your Ales fermenting at 18 - 20 degrees and rest your beed at 20 - 22 for a few days after you're done. Even after resting your beer, an extra few days in the fermenter will help things out a bit. Drop your yeast out by crashing the temp to 0 degrees, and hold it there for a few days or so. This reigeme should encourage a clean fermentation.

[Stu McKinlay]

"sweet" could well be DMS or underattenuation too.

 

I'd try dropping some beers to a few local homebrewers for some feedback before making too many changes - though doing all of Joking's suggestions is a sound move anyway. 

 

I'm sure a few might put their hand up but I can vouch for Barry Hannah, Martin Bridges, Reviled, Denimglen, vDog (amongst others).  Definitely join that brew day if you can too... every little bit helps.

[denimglen]

I think these guys are spot on - DMS, diacetyl, aceteldehyde and suspended yeast all can lead to that 'uncles homebrew' taste, especially the last two.

 

Underattenuation is another maybe but an FG of 1010 is about right for the style.

 

Too much unfermentables - either from a high mash temp or too much crystal type malts could also be a possibility - but your recipe you posted a bit back looks pretty good.

 

Make sure you get a nice strong boil (about 3 - 6L boiled off for a 23L into the fermenter) which will reduce DMS.

 

Diacetyl - healthy fresh yeast, the right sized pitch, and a low diacetly producing strain - one 11.5g sachet of SO5 should meet this criteria as long as it's been stored correctly.

 

Aceteldehyde - as JoKing mentioned - aeration aeration aeration.  I give my fermenter a solid shaking for 3 minutes.  I think this is the main cause of your homebrewish flavour.  Kit and kilos are notorious for producing massive amounts of aceteldehyde because of all the refined sugar they call for.

 

Suspended yeast is reasonably common for SO5 as it's a low-flocculating strain.  An extra week (I try and give all my ales 3 weeks in the fermenter) will help this, and as Jo mentioned if you can cool below 10C for a couple days the yeast will flocculate out very well.

 

Another thing worth doing if you can manage it is to let the temp raise a couple of degrees - to about 21C - as fermentation starts to slow down and hold it there until you cool it.  The yeast start to slow down and get a bit lazy at cleaning up the off flavours so if you can warm them up a bit they'll usually clean everything up a bit faster.

[MrC]

Hi Ray

 

Did you calculate the bitterness (IBUs) with one of the brewing software apps?  I didn't see any mention of it in your recipe.  If the bitterness is too low for the amount of sweetness the beer will seem very sweet.  If you haven't already, I'd recommend plugging your recipe into one of the brewing apps and comparing the IBUs to the BJCP style guidelines to see if you're in the right ballpark.  From the look of your recipe I'd say 25-35 IBU would be a good range.

 

Free trial of BeerSmith here

 

BJCP Style Guide here

[Ray]

Hi

Thanks for all the advice, all of you guys, joking I think u might be right about the yeast I did shake the brew for a while though, any tips how to get the brew down to a very low temp should I rack to a cube to get it in the fridge. Oh and I'm using brew pal software for my iPhone which seems to be spot on. Would a stuck sparge cause this my manifold hasn't worked very well both times I've used it and the brew is quite murky.

[denimglen]

Brewpal should be pretty good.

 

The two reasons for reducing the wort down to pitching temps quickly is to reduce the risk of infection and to stop the formation of DMS.

 

As long as the wort is well covered after flameout and you don't put anything unsanitised in it your chances of infection are pretty slim.

 

DMS can come about from not cooling quick enough but there's a bunch of guys in Aus and here going with the 'no chill' method and not having any problems.  As long as you're getting a good, strong boil for 60 - 90 minutes I don't think DMS should be an issue.

 

If anything I think sticking your pot in the bath tub will chill the beer faster than a cube in a fridge.  If you want to try and knock a few minutes off freeze some water in zip lock bags and chuck them in the bath as well.  I don't know how long it's taking you to get to pitching temp but my fermenter in the fridge will cool at about an hour per degree at about 25C.

 

Stuck sparges are a pain in the arse but shouldn't be the cause of any off flavours - unless you're crushing your grain too fine and getting astringent off flavours, which I don't think is the case here.  Most of the proteins will settle out in the kettle and what's left will settle out in the fermenter.  What sort of manifold are you using?

 

I think you'll need to get another brewer with a good palate to taste your beers and get a second opinion to find out the real cause of the problems.

[Ray]

Thanks denimglen I'll make sure I get a good boil going and I was going to use thre cube for crashing out the yeast recommended by joking, the manifold I'm using is similar to mr cherrys but not hard PVC just soft PVC pipe with 2-3mm holes drilled everywhere I'll get a piece of braid when I have some time. I'll put down a brew after Christmas and send some bottles out to get a good grasp of what flavours I should be expecting and what I can improve on as I have pretty much free freight available to me around the country. Thanks for all the input

[Stu H]

Hey fellas,

 

Any of you guys out there drunk Gisbourne Gold recently? For an independantly brewed, 4% lawnmower lager it's pretty decent.

 

It had a slight gooseberry aroma which I really liked. It was quite subtle, but just gave the beer some kind of interest rather than just the usual malt profile of a lawnmower beer.

 

I was wondering if any of you guys have drunk it recently, and/or have any idea of how to achieve a similar flavour?

 

(Oddly, the Arrow Brewing Co's Organic Pilsiner has the same flavour, but it's much more prominent (and less enjoyable for it IMHO). Plus, $20 for a takeaway rigger is way to much $$$!)

[Chris Banks]

Gizzy Gold not a bad drop I normally grab a flagon if I see it on at regionals

Gizzy Green (the beer that is) is even better!

I cant say I have picked up gooseberry in the gold myself but gooseberry is a flavour/aroma I associate with Nelson Sauvin hops later in the boil if thats any help?.

 

[Stu H]

Ow I bet all kinds of Gizzy Green are badarse!

 

Haha I've only wittingly drunk Sauvin hopped beers that have had massive flavour/aroma additions!

 

Cheers Chris!