Moa Pale Ale

[Patrick]

Hi  there

My company has purchased a bunch of different Moa beers with the idea of giving mixed boxes away to valued customers and staff.

I am no stranger to bottle conditioned beer (as I have brewed a fair bit and don't own a kegging setup yet) but the amount of sludge in the bottom of the pale ale has me concerned.

It is not a nicely packed sediment like I would expect - more of a loose fluffy substance that is not stuck to the bottom but floating free in the beer. The also-bottle-conditioned belgian tripel and wheat beer look great, with just a tight ring of sediment on the bottom of the bottle as I would expect.

The marketing guy that organised this purchase has spoken to the sales guy at Moa and been assured it is fine - and that the pale ale always looks like that because it has more proteins in it.

I had difficulty photographing it but will attach my efforts - sorry about the crap pics. (cellphone camera)

What do you think? Is this normal? I have put one in the fridge to chill and will try it in an hour or so.

Cheers
Patrick

[Andrew]

Look at the brightside, at least us or DB haven't bought them. Then you'd really hate that!!. No different from Stone et al in the states really. To get bigger you get some investors.

[Greig McGill]

Didn't say I had a problem with it, just that it took me by surprise! :) I imagine they'd be over the moon to be bought out by LN or DB! :)

Moa Single Source - if your beer doesn't use traceable products, you're a homosexual!

[Stu McKinlay]

I'm looking at the brightside.... there are loads of DINKs about with plenty of disposable income and a thirst for a great beer in a nice bottle. Well, well, well... we just happened to have released over 2,000 750ml bottles of PKB Remix and His Majesty in the last week. And we're 100% GLBT friendly (we don't mind hetero's either... we're even religious friendly).

[jt]

750ml bottles

Are you packaging by the doz in ABC crates Stu ?

[Andrew]

This looks like over fining to me. I've seen issue once or twice in some breweries and it just needs some trial work on different amounts of kettle fining's. Too little fining and you don't get enough clarification, over fining and it doesn't all drop out of the beer and you get what technical people call "fluffy bottoms". Sounds a bit gay really! Thats what its looks like from the photos anyway

[David Nicholls]

Hi Guys, thanks for the feedback. Yes there is more haze than I would like but I deemed this a minor defect in what is otherwise a great beer, hence why the trial batches were released and are proving to be popular. There are 2 batch numbers in the market, I110 which is less hazy and I210. I210 is dry hopped quite excessively and has more haze.

What is the haze? Its a combination of protein haze (from no protein rest during mashing), yeast haze (these batches used a trial yeast for the bottle conditiong that is very non flocculant) and hop material. I wanted to use the yeast from primary ferment for the bottle conditioning but it is binding up with the protein and hop material giving the fluffy bottoms.

The bitterness on this is by the way is an analysed 88 IBU. It uses Golden Promise, Marris Otter and Gladfield ale malts with all NZ hops, yes Nelson Sauvin.

Later batches I have changed the yeast and put back the protein rest and now have normal bottle conditioned sediment with no fluffy bottoms!

Thanks for the positive feedback Stu. Like Stu says if anyone has any problems with any of our beers please contact me direct on [e-mail]

Cheers
David Nicholls
Head Brewer

[Patrick]

Thanks for the info mate - these were from batch I210. There wouldn't have been an issue except the CEO wandered in while the receptionist was packing them, and picked up a bottle of the pale ale and made a bit of noise about the haze. Not sure if he knows much about beer. My reputation as a raging pisshead homebrewer meant I got called in to check them out, and I was surprised at how much gunk was in the bottles. I was pleasantly surprised at how much it compacted down after only an hour or so in the fridge - and I'm sure they will look great after a night of chilling down. Cheers!

[Steph]

I've tried the beer and thought it was pretty good myself. That is the most important thing, in the end...

[jt]

Yea, it is.
I need to get out and find a bottle tomorrow ...

[JoKing]

I'm gonna come clean here.... I feel so bad now!

Let me just say - I have had the week from hell... honestly, you'll just have to take my word for it. I was really grumpy when I posted on this discussion. I'm not going to delete the comment though.

I just remember paying like $12.50 for a Chimay Blue from the Belgian Bar and it was literraly half full of "fluffy stuff". I alerted the waiting staff to this, and they said "Oh... it's OK sir these beers are bottle conditioned"... which I fully understand. So, I kinda explained that I know a thing or two about beer - and told them that a bit of yeast is acceptable, but half a bottle of trub isn't. We didn't argue, but the conversation left me feeling condescended and out of pocket - as they didn't refund.

The Moa situatiuon reminded me of it a bit, and I got my rant on.

Still - I've had plenty of split beers from various stores, brewed locally and imported... and I always get the same stuff back from the retailers...

Anyways. I'm not gonna delete my other post, because I already feel like an arsehole.

P.S.

Good on you Dave for coming on here and being so good about the topic.

Cheers.

[Mark]

I think the point you made about converting others to craft beer is fair enough though - excessive gunk in a bottle is going to put a lot of potential converts off.

[David Nicholls]

No problem Joking, we all have to rant at times.

I210 is my favourite Patrick!

The discussion has got me thinking tho, does putting in a protein rest and changing the yeast dumb down the beer????? ie technically better but where is the flavour? As i sit drinking a later batch me thinks its good.

For anyone interested, yesterday was brew day for a Marlborough Cherry Lambic. I did a classic Belgian strong wort into a 500 litre oak Punchin with 25kg fresh cherries crushed/pulverised. Pitched with a veritable zoo which will remain banashed to the "bike shed"outside the brewery as I do not want brett lact and his pedio friends being resident here! Another 500 going down next week with another cherry type. I fully expect this to be hazy.

Cheers
David