Beer Icons & Who needs hops

[jt]

I've been passing by AHB on a regular basis for a few years and Coopers Pale Ale keeps coming up regularly as one of THE beers to clone.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php/?autocom=recipedb&a...
It's as if there's a national pride in it, like it's an icon.

Do we have such a beer in New Zealand ?

I know we have icons in the marketeers beer world, the yea right, red like a fire engine, export yourself beer, but you know I don't mean that.

What's the beer that we all accept as a good one, not swill, not boutique, not a one off or seasonal.
What's the accepted good beer out there that always draws us in ? Is there is one beer that has almost universal acceptance ..

I'd suggest that there's been a few possibilities over the years .. Mac's (which one though), Hopsmacker, Bookbinder .. Any more ideas chaps ?

Now the next part.

If you can decide what this beer is - why not brew it for the next case swap - or maybe a seperate class in the SOBA homebrew comp - an ANZAC day brew day ?

I think the interpreation and the results could be quite fascinating

cheers, jt

[MrC]

To me this relates directly to the NZ styles for the NHC and should be a showcase of NZ hops. We have some great hops here in NZ but we don't really have any special NZ malt or NZ yeast.

Epic Pale Ale sprung to mind as being a great NZ beer that is starting to meet the criteria that you mention but I would have to discard it as an iconic kiwi beer due to the prominent US hops.

The two beers that I think of are Emersons Bookbinder and Macs Hop Rocker.

To me prominent NZ Hops are what make a NZ beer.

I'd be keen on a Kiwi Beer case swap.

[JoKing]

Great discussion point JT.

I'll say Epic Pale Ale. It'a a great beer, has been marketed well and hasn't offended any people like Lion and DB has with their legal mussle power in the last few months.

Your idea of a SOBA category is fantastic - but I wouldn't want any of the free marketing that would go along with that to go to anyone other than someone who deserves it - which is why it shouldn't be a Mac's Beer. Not a single Monteiths beer comes to mind anyway.

Emersons deserve it - but IMHO I haven't found myself as emotionally attached to any of their beers as I have with Epic. In fact, any of the craft breweries deserve it... Paul and Nigel from Croucher Brewing have been so good to me throughout the years - but in the end, I dont think any craft beer out there is as nationally recognised as Epic. I'd want to say Hallertau too, but the people in Gore couldn't - as they would never of had any - it's not as recognised.

So there.

Epic, I reckon.

[vdog]

I'm with you on Epic - it's definitely my favourite NZ beer. I've been aiming to brew something like it for a while, and I reckon I'm getting close - got brave last night and did a side-by-side tasting of my own pale ale vs Epic PA. I've got a bit more work to do I think (mine has a maltier aroma and I used Hallertau instead of Riwaka so slightly more grapefruity than passionfruit) but the bitterness and finish were great on both. In the end I was pretty impressed with how my effort stacked up, as were my fellow guinea pigs.

So yes - keen as on a competition to brew something like this!

[JoKing]

I just remembered that the first WBC comp was Epic too! Most of us just used NZ hops - it wasn't too far off from cloned!

[jt]

Interesting that in two replies we have two opposite views on Epic, though I don't know that I'd discount it on the American hops.

I'd have gone with Macs as an iconic brewery - before the LN buyout - but I don't think it commands the same respect it used to, either as a brewery or in the beers it produces ? Whatever beer put Mac's on the map is probably no longer held up as it it once was, which maybe a reflection that there's much more variety available these days ?

I don't think anything Monteiths was ever a consideration for me, I don't think it's appeal was wide enough before it was put up as a national brand.

Hopsmacker
Epic
Hoprocker
Bookbinder

Any other thoughts ?

[JoKing]

I think Nelson Reserve was the last Lager that Macashin Brewery produced, before the LN purchase. That was an awesome beer - but was replaced with the inferior Hop Rocker. The first release of hop rocker was really good - but I have to assume that they are spending the same money on hops now, as they were back then. Or maybe my tollerance to hops has become so powerful, that I just cant taste them anymore. I doubt it though.

[Stu McKinlay]

I agree that Nelson Reserve was a good drop but I don't think either that or Hop Rocker were quite as good as the Wicked Blonde. That had something that neither of the other two have - a reasonably assertive bitterness.

I'd not say Epic Pale Ale - sure it is a great New Zealand beer but there is nothing quintessentially "kiwi" about it. I wouldn't think there is a local ingredient in there besides the water! Maybe NZ Cascade will start getting in there with hop prices as they are. ??? Mayhem would be more of an option.


Hop Smacker for sure! That was the NZ pale ale. There is still nothing, off the top of my head, that has come close.

[jt]

Yes, that turned heads and inspired a number of people to brew their own attempts.
Mine failed miserably.
How did Hopslapper go down, do you still have the notes ?

Two votes for Hopsmaker !

[MrC]

I agree with joking's comment on availability. For it to be iconic, it needs to be widely available. Bookbinder is borderline on the availability front.

[JoKing]

True - I cant get any Emersons down here - but I can go for a 20min drive and get some Epic... in 500ml bottles... for $5.50.

[JoKing]

I reckon someone needs to ask Brendan or Stu or Greig - or any other SOBA exec to ammend the entry categories for the 2009 NHC before its too late. Heaps and heaps of people can put an Epic Clone together before July.

[jt]

And I was starting having doubts about the SOBA HB Comp idea .. is it a good idea or not ?