Capital Times Beer Necessities

[Geoff Griggs]

The results of the 2008 Capital Times Beer Necessities survey, including brief judges' notes, are posted here...

http://www.captimes.co.nz/rev/37/Beer.boss

[Stu McKinlay]

I've only skim read this but he's played the classic journalist card.

Quoting out of centext and only pulling up quotes that can be used to justify his own bullshit.
AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY
Leaving out the most justified point - picking the best three beers after the most experienced and only independent judge has left. The result: one beer from DB and one beer from Lion in the top three (and coincidentally - one judge from DB and one judge from Lion).

I thought about responding with a letter to the editor but as there will be a few weeks off for Xmas, there is little point. My girlfriend has been bagging that paper for 5 years (saying it is full of lightweight tripe and is sexist). I always pick it up hoping there will be a column from Geoff in there... I'm usually disappointed but I'll continue to pick it up for that reason.

I've met Aaron, over a table judging Monteith's Beer and Wild Food a few years ago, and found him to be a pretty good bloke. I've got nothing against him but a lot against his argument.


Banana ester in a black lager? This beer shouldn't have made the article let alone the top three!

[Kempicus]

Well said Stu and Greig!!!!
yep that reply actually made me laugh, nothing he's said has really made me change my mind, on the contrary going to the public like he is just smacks of a guilty conscience
Banana esters in a schwarz....love that as a justification of a 'great' beer...ah well just showed what a crock it really is!

[Steph]

I have been reading with interest and trying not to be too critical as, like I said earlier, at least the CT consistently does a beer column - good or bad.

I suspect Arron didn't ask for his early editorial to be posted, just like a few others here have commented their emails seem to end up as posts...what is that?

Anyway, regardless of having some sympathy, I cannot resist these few things...
- "a better golden lager than Mac's Gold anywhere in the world"
I say, who can be bothered trying to find a better golden lager..."who can find a better APA?"...That's a challenge I'd be up for.

- "a classic dark lager - banana esters on the nose"
I am not a brewer but I don't expect banana on anything much besides a wheat beer.

- "Reviewing and journalism in general is a bit like being a member of the
Royal family"
Ha ha ha ha...ha..ha...besides the times when they are really pissed, the royals have advisers of all sorts to give good advice, and people to save them...

I am always slightly insulted when beer columns talk about " women liking wheat beers" or "there will be wine for the women". This happens a lot in the CT so I feel some resonance with Stu's GF. Live in the hope it doesn't continue.

Anyway, the Epic 3rd birthday was a hoot. Thanks Luke and Colin for hosting...

[Greig McGill]

You lucky lucky Wellingtonians! :)

[nzbrewer]

http://www.realbeer.co.nz/blog/2009/01/beer-necessities-controversy...

Having a look at the traffic to RealBeer.co.nz (thanks for the plug Aaron) after Aaron's response in the Capital Times to this forum I have come to the following conclusion.

The only people that care about what Aaron wrote seem to be the people on this forum. Actually the day after the article came out traffic dropped by 120 people, and actually the whole week after the traffic was down below average.

We are fighting amongst the converted.

Aaron is a great spokesperson for the cause of good beer in New Zealand, and has a channel to communicate and educate. You can't please everyone all of the time. The results are what they were. What I have enjoyed is the discussion that it created.

Craft beer still has along way to go to make it into the mainstream.

I'd like to propose that Aaron does this once a month but focuses on just one style per month and gets every beer he can get hold of in that style, and just get them off the shelf at random. Not just the samples that breweries send him. Some public criticism of some of the craft beers out there may get these brewers to lift their game.

At the same time it is good to have a healthy debate (it would be nice to have the other side stand up and participate) this way things can change and improve, evolve.

[Stu McKinlay]

Agreed. You never replied to why you didn't enter?

Yeastie Boys didn't because we had no beer for sale at the time it was due to Capital Times. All of our Porter had sold and the Pale Ale was a week or two away.

[Stu McKinlay]

Hi Aaron

I refer to your article "Snob Beery", 23/12/2008 - a nicely shaped article to make your beer survey look good and a few beer enthusiasts look bad.

While I admit that beer snobbery can crop up amongst such a dedicated group of beer lovers, it is something I try hard to avoid. I'm a big fan of what Colin Paige, and now Ally Clem, and the Mac's staff have done with the Mac's range over the last few years. Some very good beers and some outstanding ones amongst their line up. I couldn't say the same about the Monteith's range - both regular and seasonal - which have failed to impress me for a number of years now (and yes, I do try them now and then to be sure).

You failed to address two very important questions from the RealBeer users in your article:
1) How do you think it looks for two lower scoring beers from DB and Lion to rise to the top when you have one judge from each of those breweries?
2) Was it such a good idea to pick the top three after your most experienced judge (Geoff Griggs), who has publicly disagreed with the final result, left the judging venue for a flight back to Blenheim?

I'd love to see the Beer Necessities survey and regular Capital Times beer articles continue as they are a great promotion for a relatively undiscovered industry. However, I'd recommend you revert to the old method of recommending a mixed dozen might actually be a better outcome. I could almost see Mac's Gold and Monteith's Black making a list of that kind.

I also see no reason why there is a need to include judges with any formal affiliation to a brewery in your Beer Necessities panel. There are enough experienced beer judges, writers and commentators in Wellington to make up a totally independent panel. Feel free to contact me for recommendations.

Regards
Stu McKinlay

[Stu McKinlay]

Batting for Capital Times for a second....

For those of you out there, Capital Times only ask for a few bottles of the beer to be provided (and $0) to enter this survey. It is a great deal for small breweries wanting to get some exposure. Entering international beer awards costs upwards of $100 per beer!

[Greig McGill]

Very nicely said Stu. Also Luke, your point about fighting amongst the converted is valid, except...

I don't really see it as a fight. The only harshness to me was the labelling of passionate people as snobs. Nobody was attacking Aaron, "we" simply wanted to see an independent survey remain totally independent. To me it felt like a cheap shot, replying not on the forums where one could engage in a debate, but in a newspaper article. It reminds me of overhearing an informal conversation at a party, or more appropriately in a public place, not choosing to express your differing opinion at the time, and then publicly lambasting the participants on television for the opinions they expressed. It felt like dirty pool.

[Kempicus]

Nicely put my Ninja.....my thoughts exactly, a cheap shot with no real means of response....
Almost like a knee jerk guilty reaction that to me just seemed to indicate that there was something to feel guilty about...

[nzbrewer]

I guess fighting was not the best descriptor.

Maybe the poll on the front page will give some indication of what the RealBeer.co.nz readers think.

While I was looking at the stats for last 30 days I found that we had 1647 unique visitors come to the site and they viewed 53,600 pages. I would guess that these 1600 people are ALL of the craft beer lovers in NZ. Shame we only have 280 signed up and contributing.

1600 people x 77 litres per person = 123,200 litres drunk of craft beer in the last year. (so maybe it is a little less than all the craft beer lovers in NZ)

Hey maybe we could create our own brew with these 1600 people and have everyone give input into it, oh wait that has already been tried and didn't work ;-)

[Stu McKinlay]

Abridged version of my letter the Capital Times today:
http://www.capitaltimes.co.nz/letters.aspx

Not sure if it is in the actual paper, or whether there is a response, I've not seen the physical paper yet.