Kegging off flavours

[Cain Harland]

Quit often when I first tap a keg it tastes like crap. Its a flavor I have trouble describing it dank and chemical maybe. I usually suspect something is wrong with the hops and its something I don't notice when I have a taste during kegging. I have discovered if I let off a bit of gas and give it a day or two and it improves a lot.

My fermentation process is primary for 2 weeks with blow off pipe (rather than airlock) in the bottom of a 1L rum bottle filled with water and sanitizer. Cold crash for 1 week. Transfer to keg with CO2 blanket. Then carbonate at serving pressure for 2 weeks.

I wonder if its some fermentation by product that evaporates when using an airlock is kept in by the back pressure with the blow off pipe. Its the only explanation can think of but I know folks get good results with pressure fermenting. Any ideas?

[Peter Smith]

I like to leave my kegs on about 12-15psi for two weeks then on about 8psi for a week, before really trying the beer.   I dislike the taste of yeast unless its should be in the beer ie, a wheat yeast.   So I go for yeast that Flocs out well 007, 090, and 1272 is very good too.   I am trying 090 as a house yeast but may return or side by side 090 and 1272.   

I find gelatine helps strip out the yeast but does take a bit of flavour as well.

Cain, I really believe nothing works as well as time cold conditioning, the carb level, once it equalises seems to add mouthfeel to the beer.  Before it equalises its harsh, carbolic and just not nice...   its amazing how Temp and carb level change a beer.

For the last 6 months I have not been dry hopping ,my beers.   I think once you dry hop it masks a lot of off flavours etc,   if you can make a great beer without the dry hop it will be even better with one.    

I clean with napisan then serious water wash, then star san.   Beeers can taste great into keg and go south from there,   if thats the case its normally an infection in my experience.   Good beers just get better and better as time goes on, exceptions been super hoppy beers which are best smashed at there peak 2-3 weeks after kegging.

Why not do a smash with Pac Jade Bittering and Motueka,   just gladdies pale ale...  can't go wrong.

[Cain Harland]

Thanks Peter I don't think its a yeast thing as some of there beers have been super clear but I think your on to something with the equalizing. I know that harsh, carbolic taste your talking about, its much more noticeable in less hoppy beers, particularly ones I've carbed up fast at high pressure and ages out relatively fast. Maybe it the same thing but I'm perceiving differently in the hoppy ones where I'm having this issue.

I've noticed lately how context effects my perception of a particular flavor. Carbonation in particular has a huge effect on my perception sweetness, maltyness and hop flavor.

Maybe all I need is a little more time in the keg before drinking.

Its funny my initial reaction this particular beer was yuck Simcoe (89.6% of the hops in the beer) I'm never brewing with that again and a realization that the over use of Simcoe (which I thought I loved) is something I haven't liked in other beer (mine and commercial). Today after burping the keg yesterday it tastes sweeter more malty and the hops are more palatable. I actually quite like the beer and will happily drink the rest of the keg and can see a place for Simcoe but I don't think I will ever use it for more than say 1/3 of the hops in a beer again.

[Crusader-Rob]

What do you clean with?

and what do you sanitise with?

[Cain Harland]

Clean with stain ox (a local companies version of PBW) if at all. Rinse thoroughly if I do. But if the keg looks clean after a quick rinse I just sanitize.

Sanitize with iodophore and push it out with CO2 to leave blanket in keg. I run it till only foam comes out the tap.

[Crusader-Rob]

Oh ok, I normally clean with Percarb, and then sanirize with Starsan.

Ive never used iodophor? does it generally leave any type of chemical residue?

but as someone else said I normall discard 500-750ml of the first pull (750ml includes the sanitiser i nthe line plus some beer)

essentially I run it until its running mostly clear (I gelatin my beers in the keg)

[Scott H]

Are yoe pouring and discarding the first 1/2-1 pints worth? Sure your not getting the residual cleaner from the lines and or what ever trub has settle to the bottom of the keg. Normally I discard the first pint after the starsan has come out of the line helps clear the line and the legs dip tube even tho it sounds like a waste.

[Cain Harland]

Na I never pour that much out usually only tip 1/2 a cup or so unless its pouring real dirty. You might be on to something there.

[DMAC]

Do you loose any starsan into the beer when you cold crash?

[Cain Harland]

I don't think so but might have to keep an eye on it.

[Kevin Sharp]

Carbonic acid can certainly mess with your sense of taste, but my money is on residual iodophor in your dip tube and/or lines. Iodophor does have a taste and it's not very pleasant. It can be used as a no rinse sanitiser, but you're supposed to thoroughly drain it after it's been applied. That's not easy to do with a keg.

I sanitise kegs and lines with StarSan. I cold crash, and filter before the beer goes in the keg, so I find that carbonation has reached equilibrium within 7 days (or 2 days if I use a carb stone).  I discard the first half pint and haven't had any kegging off flavours from subsequent servings.

[Cain Harland]

So is StarSan less unplesent iodophor?

I've been thinking of getting some StarSan because its not corrosive and can be left in stainless equipment between uses which is not recomended with iodophor.

[Kevin Sharp]

"So is StarSan less unplesent iodophor?"

Yep. StarSan is phosphoric acid and a flavourless surfactant commonly used in toothpaste. When you use it at the recommended dilution the small amounts left in beer are practically impossible to detect. That said I will always try to remove as much as possible. The surfactant has two benefits. It reduces the surface tension that bacteria would otherwise use to protect themselves from the acid. It also means that it produces lots (lots and lots) of foam. The foam sanitises just as well as the liquid but it sticks to surfaces, so you don't need to use as much sanitiser as you would otherwise.

However, it's good practice to use a different sanitiser every now then so that you don't provide a habitat where a resistant strain can move in.