First Saison, first liquid yeast, whole lotta firsts...

[David R]

So with summer around the corner and a desire to have a crack at something a little different to the US-style pale/amber ales I've brewed too many of in the past year, I'm thinking about brewing my first Saison. It's not a style of beer I have consumed a lot of, but the ones I have tried I've really enjoyed, especially the more moden hoppy types (8wired Saison Sauvin, Nøgne Ø India Saison). I've got a bag of Citra hops sitting in the freezer begging to be used, and after a little googling it seems like a 'Citra Saison' could be a worth-while endeavour. I've been using a bastardised BIAB method to brew ~12L all-grain batches (partly restricted by the size of my pot, partly by my desire to experiment without having to drink 20L of beer for each experiment), and would like to continue to do so as the results have generally been far better than anything I brewed with extract.

The first "first" I've stumbled onto for this beer is the yeast. In the past I've stuck with US05 and SO4 for simplicity's sake, but this time it looks like have to splash out on a liquid like Wyeast Belgian or French Saison. I've been reading up on their website and it ssays their packs are good for 19L of wort up to 1.060 OG. I was going to keep this one under 7% ABV but it seems like with a single pack in 12L I'll be over-pitching, or if I split a pack between two batches I'll likely be under-pitching. $20 of yeast for 12L of beer is starting to make it a bit pricey, which isn't too big a concern but if I can get better bang-for-buck then that would be good. Could I get away with splitting the pack between 24L of wort ~1.060, or should I try make a starter (another first) and increase the cell count?

The other "first" is the recipe itself. I fell like I'm starting to get a bit of an idea of what I'm looking at with a recipe for an IPA, but when it comes to Saison I'm a bit lost. I quite like the look of this recipe, probably more for the colour than anything, but I'm wondering if it could do with dry hopping too?
http://microbebrewer.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/citra-saison.html
I'm thinking it would be best to keep the malt bill fairly simple and let the yeast/hops do the talking? And French or Belgian yeast? Any suggestions/guidance/help would be greatly appreciated!

*edit* also found this recipe that I quite like the look of, perhaps without the 'extra bits'; http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/citra-saison-5gal

[Peter Smith]

Belle Saison yeast - did you harvest this?

You are getting incredible attenuation given higher mash temps...   which yeast gives you closest to dupont?    I expect its the wyeast 3724   which is dupont according to legend, but theory does not always equal result...

[Adam Sparks]

Hey Peter, its a dry yeast from Danstar. Mash temperature seems to make only a small difference... its the same with 3711, they both seem quite happy chewing on dextrine's

[Peter Smith]

re mash..   thats what I love about this game,   so much conflicting information   8)

maybe I brew real strong then water down to 1.055 ish and try to get 3 small carboys out of the brew, and try all three yeasts...    I love dupont...    so will probably stay goldings, but have that kohatu for a brew soon.

Does the Belle require much headspace?

[David R]

Just to keep this updated, I overshot the OG by a fair bit, think I'm finally getting the hang of this mashing business and improving my efficiency! Turned out to be 1.066 with the 180g of dextrose added, and the yeast has chomped it down to 1.006 in 11 days. I started at 20C for the first couple of days, then slowly increased it to 25, then 27. Letting it cool back down to 18-20 now until I can bottle it.

Sample smells fruity and tastes peppery, really excited to see how it turns out but I think it will benefit from a fair bit of time in the basement...

Peter, I didn't notice an excessive amount of krausen so I wouldn't think so,  but my carboy was only 2/3 full.

[Peter Smith]

sounds a good brew,   its finally turned hot in akl so this week is spellbinder and saison time...   going to leave in carboy under house until end of jan to condition then bottle 1/2 and keg 1/2 the saison...   time to go to the offie and get some dupont saison bottles for harvesting I think...

[David R]

I've never tried the DuPont, shame on me! I really need to explore more Belgian beers...

Going to bottle this weekend, any suggestions on what to aim for with the carbonation? (using dextrose, batch-priming)

[Peter Smith]

its about 2.5 - 3.0   Dupont that is,   you must find one, there is nothing in NZ that comes anywhere close,  xmas time comes early to my house as my copy of farmhouse ales and wild brews arrived in the post!!!  my saison is now in 48hr since start and I have it at 22.8C   heading to 24 by sunday...   redone plan is to bottle 1/2 and brett the other half,  I ended up with about 38-40L at og 1.054

 

[David R]

Hmm, wifey is in Auckland tonight/tomorrow, would Newmarket Liquorland have some? Anywhere else to get it close-ish to CBD or Lunn Ave?

[Peter Smith]

the liquir store right next to nosh in apirana glen innes has some 330ml bottles as I asked him to get them in....  he has a great selection of craft now...

$6.90 ish a bottle....    man If I can brew anything close to this I will be in heaven,  I got 2 bottles and emptied the last 20ml of both into a 200ml dme starter,  will try to build it up to 2L   there is a lot of talk on the web that the wyeast is not fully the same, and that the dupont out of bottle fisihes lower easier,  still I am going to start at 25C with this yeast for 2 days then and ramp to 30 over next 7 days...

[David R]

Hmm, FG 1.000, have I over-cooked it?!

[Crusader-Rob]

no, no you have not. typical for saison yeast, very high attentuation.

[Peter Smith]

low and dry is PERFECT...   get a dupont its dry and tart... from the dryness..