Cara-pils and cara-foam

[Liam Callaghan]

I am just after some clarification on the use of these malts and % to add to a grist.  Seems to be quite a few interpretations on the web along with some confusion on naming.  Bought a sack of Carapils a couple of weeks ago thinking I will try it instead of wheat, especially for the clarity of the blondes or clear ales.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/dextrine-malt-vs-carapils-50476/

It's these two malts I'm interested in and from reading the above forum post they are useful to add body and foam retention in your beer along with shelf life (not an issue at my place).  Recommendations from the same thread and other recipes is 3-5% of grist.

So do they add sweetness when they increase the body of the beer?

What is the issue if you were to add say 10% to the grist?

I'm looking to focus on some other ales this summer and a heap of belgians and wondering if its a suitable addition for say a Kolsh or Saison where I want to brew a dry beer? 

L.

[Des Ross]

Liam, my reading tells me there is not a lot of difference, if any, between those two malts, they just have trading labels from different Malting Companies. As dextrine malts both will add some residual sweetness plus body, mouthfeel and head retention. As far as using them for Belgium beers, where you are looking for more dryness, dextrose or candy sugars will be better options. I am not sure about the need to use 10% of a malt bill....i think i would be mashing at a higher temperature if I thought I needed much more than 5% but then you don't want to do that for a Belgium beer. Good that you mentioned Carafoam as now I know a little about it!

[Peter Smith]

I brewed a smash riwaka with golden promise and carapils (well not exactly smash...) I used 5% carapils   gave great head,  has not helped with clarity, beer has a serious protien haze,  the wort was very clear.  I am going to redo this brew and use gelatine before kegging.  Its a nice light lawnmower beer, the girls all like it.

I also have a pale ale brewing with Gladfields gladiator in it,  I understand this is a carapils substitue.

[Crusader-Rob]

"gave great head" careful Peter.... lol.

I've generally stuck with around 3% seems enough to "give great head" although I haven't used it in my last few bers, and got a good sticky lacing on the glass.

I'm pretty sure Carapils and Carafoam, are the same thing too?

I've read that part of using this is unfermentables, which helps to give it its body, how true that is i dont know, i dont think 10% is an issue if your using the MJ or 3711 yeasts...

[Peter Smith]

I think I can remember a JZ pilsner recipe with 10% carapils 90% pilsner....

just checked beersmith,  I have never used more then 5%    ....

[FatD]

If you used 10% your beer would finish at 1.018 or something, as most is unfermentable sugar that adds body and head.

Recommended is 2-5% for pales and golden.

Won't help to brew a dry beer :o

 

[Liam Callaghan]

Thanks guys!

Sweetness is not generally what I'm after so will keep it to 3-5%.  Be interesting to see how it compares to wheat which is my normal fare.   Two batches down with a 5% addition. 

Saison with 5% and 15% sugar to dry it out, be interesting to see how that one turns out, its smelling amazing.  I want to draw this through a hand pump for beer clubs xmas do so wanted to add the carapils for the head rather than a high carbonation.  Will see how it does.

[Peter Smith]

what yeast for the saison??

[Liam Callaghan]

Farmhouse, it's my favourite for saisons as it finishes really dry.  Last batch was 0.996 for a 6.5%.  Runs anywhere from 17-36 degrees depending on how much ester your after.  This one was from a slant I took about 18 months ago and just taken a sample to make a new starter, fired up like a rocket! 

[Grant R Baker]

Many of the Crystal and Cara* malts add head too. One of my brews only uses PA, Caramunich and Crystal malts... heaps on head so no Carapils required.

If I am worried about head I start as low as 100gr of Carapils (23l batch)... and just see how it goes.

[Des Ross]

I am pretty sure that Caramunich 1, 2, & 3 are Weyerman's Crystal malts...equivalent I think to 40, 60 and 80L Crystal malts. If you were using the two brands in the same recipe you would effectively be increasing total Crystal...just a thought

[Liam Callaghan]

I am not worried about the head mate and no I'm not using both, pretty sure they are both the same malt, just branded differently. 

My main concern was the sweetness, as I want to use it for dry finished beers and didn't want a syrup.

Seems they do provide body and foam retension but they don't add a residual sweetness (not that we can taste anyway).

I've always added wheat and never had any issues with head, just wanted to try something else and these malts seemed to be a little misunderstood.

Grant, is that your recipe for Scotch Ale? :)

[Des Ross]

Sorry Liam, I was actually replying to Grants comment re using caramunich and crystal in the same recipe and maybe not realizing there might be potential for using more crystal than planned....agree with you 100% regarding between misunderstanding between malts...there certainly is confusion sometimes with branding wording when attempting to work out commonality amongst the different manufacturers