Counterflow chillers

[Liam Callaghan]

I've built one of these previously and had all sorts of issues with it and gone to immersion which is pretty good.  The CFC I built was 15 of copper pipe tightly wrapped and inserted into a large dia. plastic pipe with both ends capped.  Each cap had a hose connection for cold in and hot out as well as terminal fittings on the copper.  Blocked every time and leaked like an old dear.

Anyway, I am part way through building a hop back to filter my hot wort and add some nice hop finish.  The hop back is being used to filter and the wort will be hot, but unfortunately the chiller unit is in the boil kettle.  I could move it to the fermenter but not sure about the hot liquid in plastic, also there is a much greater chance of scratching my fermenters with the copper chiller.

An option I was looking at was a gravity feed from the boil kettle, to the hop back and through the chiller to the fermenter.  Using either a counterflow or plate chiller.

Anyone using these well and can give me some pointers on how you stop them from blocking with hop or trub matter?  What sort of maintenance to keep them clean etc.?  Same with a plate chiller?

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/counterflow-wort-chiller-build-use-...

Something like this

The primary option is for me to use the immersion chiller in the boil kettle as normal and run the pump to circulate the wort through the hop back and return it to the boil kettle.  I think this will work ok but I'm a little nervous that the hop back might block once the trub and hop pellet matter starts to fill up the hop back as its filtered out.  I might use a 1" outlet to compensate.  Getting a couple of screen cut for it tomorrow which should help.

Worth a bash anyway :)

[Peter Smith]

what is the target temp for wort going into the hopback?

[Liam Callaghan]

I'm going to try it tonight with recirc the hot wort through the hop bag fixed to the top of the boil kettle and see how much it filters.  Unfortunately I don't have the pump yet so will have to do it by hand and not sure if the pump will handle the slurry.

Peter as far as I know it just needs to be hot, I've not seen anhy mention of a specific temp.  Originally hop backs were used to filter the trub out of the beer on the way to the fermenter, so it would leave the boil kettle in the high 90's I'd guess.  The hotter the better to soak up all the lovely hop oils.  From wiki it recommends boil kettle - hop back - counterflow chiller.  The hop back being a seal chamber, forces the volatile compunds into the liquid and the rapid cooling keeps them in solution.

It also says that whirlpooling is mostly used to remove hop pellets as the flowers dont seperate easily.  Hop backs are used to filter hop flowers and that particles of hop pellets make it through the hop back.

Looks like the bag option is a goer for me then and I can use the hop back as required with a clear wort.  If the pump can handle the slurry, otherwise I might have to make a peristaltic pump instead just for filtering.  Unless anyone knows where I can get one cheap?

[Druid]

Not sure what sort of pump you are using but I pump all my wort and trub out of the kettle with a Chinese march pump.

[Liam Callaghan]

The March pumps are a out of my price range atm so I was going to use one of the cheap ones from keg connections in wairau park, it's only a small thing that he retails for $80 or something.  The march pumps are $300 plus.  Hopefully it handles the same and nice to know your handles it no worries.

My current system doesn't require any pumps and runs like a dream but thought I might try it with a cheap pump to recirc through the mash and for running it through the hop back.  Always nice to try a new method.

[Brent Marquis]

Hi Liam,

The march 809 high speed pumps can be bought for less than $300

these guys are great:

http://www.tescopumps.com/servlet/the-199/BEER-PUMP-AC-dsh-5SS-dsh-...

~250nzd landed...
Email and/or buy more than 1 and you could possibly do a bit better. (they were offering me a better price for a 2 or 3 pump purchase about 12 months ago)

[Druid]

I reckon just get a cheap Chinese one from AliExpress - if you look hard, you can get great deals.  

I've got 2 - one from TradeMe that I use with the kettle for about $240 and the other for use with the mash tun for recirc, filling, lautering etc was the AliExpress one - only USD100, with free shipping from China.  

Never had an issue with it - I personally don't think we do the hours on it that will take it past it's design life.

[Brent Marquis]

Yeah, I have a cheap 'resun' pump that I use for HLT recirculation, and I have a march 809PL-HS for the wort side.

the march is smoother, polysulfone (i.e food safe!) not as clunky sounding and has a kick ass flow rate and seems to handle high temps better.

the resuns discolour and stay that way inside, who knows what that plastic is and what it is soaking up ;)

it's all about a suitable pump for the application....

[Hamish Jones]

Hey Liam, have a squizzy at this pump

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4270 

looks rather similar to the ones sold in NZ for a fair whack more, his shipping to NZ is pretty reasonable also, through in some POR hops and yeah away we go

[Adam Sparks]

Chugger Pumps are also an option, much better than the tempercon models, comparable to march in every way and the customer service is very very good! The polysulfone pump is $109US and the stainless head version is $159US

I dont understand how your CFC clogged from pellets and trub Liam? Whole leaf will clog everything but I have a 1/4" copper tube in my CFC and I can run my brew through with trub, pellets and all with no issue.

You may already have your sights set on a specific hopback but I just thought Id throw in my opinion and it might help you make a decision either way.... I used to do exactly as you plan, gravity feed to a hopsack -> cfc -> fermenter, but now I dont use the hopback at all

Ive found steeping hops for 20minutes after boil gives a much more saturated flavor and aroma and its way more efficient. I just throw in my 0 minute addition (which I calculate at 5 or 10 minutes depending on the alpha in the hops), turn off the heat and switch on the pump so its all going through the chiller and back into the kettle to pasturize everything. After 20 minutes I turn the tap water on and transfer, then Im left with this in the kettle

I dont get a great whirlpool because the flow isn't fast after being pushed through the 1/4" CFC, but its enough to slowly recirc and push all the hop and trub to the side of the kettle.... I still end up with a lot of cold break in the fermenter but I really dont think its worth the extra hassle to try and get rid of. And Im convinced that steeping flameout hops is the way to go over a hopback

Just my two cents

  

[Liam Callaghan]

Thanks for that Adam!

My blockages were with gravity fed CFC using 3/8" copper pipe, might have been better with a pump.  Currently I don't use a pump and don't need one, my brewery runs well without anything technical.  I just like tinkering :)

Wanted to try recirc on the mash tun, I tried a new method of brewing and recirc would work well with that.  Especially as it means I can brew two beers at once with the same equipment.

Intersting to read your observations on a long steep after flame out opposed to hop backs, it's certainly easier!  Well worth a try.

From the comments on wiki regarding hop backs its the pressurised closed environment followed by a rapid chilling that makes the hop back work so well as the volatile compounds are forced to stay in saturation within the liquid.  Sounds good but no idea if this is correct or some bullshi# haha

Might hit up the pro brewers at the next club night.

Thanks for all the tips on pumps too guys, much appreciated.  Quite a lot to choose from eh?

[Adam Sparks]

Yeah Id expect most of the commercial beers you enjoy have a hefty whirlpool addition and no hop back.

If the oils are going to blow off without a pressurised environment then then they will certainly blow off during fermentation…. I just figured you get more saturation with steeping so you have more left over in the beer after fermentation. But if you could recirculate through the hop back ala Sierra Nevada's torpedo, Im sure that would make difference! But that sounds like a hot sludgy blocked nightmare just waiting to happen

[Chad Keven]

Out of interest what is the id of your cfc tube that wort tavels through? And how many
lpm is your pump? Ive constructed a cfc that has 20mm id and my pump is 110 lpm my wort then returns to the kettle via whirlpool my jacket around the inside tube is 32mm