Recipe Advice Thread

[denimglen]

Thought it might be handy to have a thread for some of the more advanced brewers to give some advice on recipes.

Let's see how it goes eh...

[Crusader-Rob]

2 packs.

[Crusader-Rob]

I'm working on another hoppy american amber, really enjoying my current one, its still pretty fresh, i want to make some changes and it doesnt have that hop punch i'm looking for.

So I've got a question or two. 

My original recipe states pale crystal, 0.4kg, but I want to sub a couple of items out.

firstly my amarillo stash is gone, and I've decided to take the "oreti red" road, and sub in a high alpha NZ Hop, so in comes Nelson sauvin, unless someone elses reckons southern cross with centennial would be better?

second, I'm subbing out Cara-Amber for Redback i think its a car-red?

and lastly I used dark crystal, do i sub in sepc b, and lower the choc malt?

Iused this recipe as a general guideline: http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/group/therecipeexchange/forum/topic...

Any other suggestions?

[Scarrfie]

Can't help with the hops other than to say NS is potent, what are you trying to achieve with the malts Rob? You will be softening the toast and roast by subbing both those out, and moving towards a sweeter profile.

[Ralph]

I think (from reading - not experience) that southern cross is likely to go well with centennial if you are looking for the sharp piney type flavours... not done any hop mixtures like you are talking though so it is all guess work on my behalf.

[andrew henshaw]

I use Nelson Sauvin for my hoppy amber, 70gm of 12.7%AA into 60litres for 4 days, and it comes out with a great aroma. Usually start drinking it at 2 weeks and the hop aroma is intense until about week 6, then starts to fade a little, but still good. Goes nice with an american style, I drink a bit in Portland, Oregon, and they love the N.Sauvin there.

[Peter Smith]

read this post.....     Realbeer.co.nz  is a great resource....   use google to mine it    in fact i have read every post by Joking, took a while but worth reading and taking notes....

Have just done the NS/Rewaka as described below its cold conditioning now, should be ready to try in a month I used Pac Jade bittering say 30 ibus the NS at 30mins another 15 ibus ,Riwaka big late 10,5,FO... bit of cascade as well late but not dominate.   dry hop tiny say 5g NS and wai-iti for aroma only

Permalink Reply by JoKing on July 22, 2009 at 7:03pm

Well it's a little bit like this...

Sauvin - killer character. Lemon, Lime, Vinous... crazy shit. To keep this under control, use not later than 30mins to the end. Late additions can be unpredictable. So like - 25g at 30min will work towards some bitterness as well as some pleasant Sauvin notes in the palate and on the nose. Dryhopping works in small amounts - like .5 to 1g per liter to lift the hop brightness in a beer.

Riwaka - Tangerine citrus, bright clean, lemongrass. Very nice stuff. Originally was my #1 hop until Simcoe came along. Can be used late in the boil all the way to flamout to lift the brightness in a beer. It sort of needs a bit of caramel flavour to carry some of the higher notes if you want a large amount in a beer, but 50g late in the boil with the above Sauvin addition is killer.

Motueka - Low end citrus with some grassy spicyness. Goes well in dark beers as well as in Pale Ales in smaller amounts. Can be blended say 20g Mot : 40g Riwaka to increase hop spectrum in a brew... or half that if you SG is lower than 1.050. It's the hop in Sassy Red - so wrap your lips around that one. Can be used all the way through to the dry hop like Riwaka.

Rakau - I'm still on the bench with this hop. Not too keen on it as it lends a "Vodka" kind of smell to the beer, which is weird. Some of the hop perception is good... but you cant escape the other weird aromeit lends. EVERY beer I have tasted it in has the same flavour: My NZIPA, #2 at hallertau when Steve trialed it and also in Kid Chocolate... which may well not have even had it late in the boil. If it were any good, NZ Hops would advertise it on their website. Sorry Doug - dont mean to slag you guys off mate, but 3 out of 4 aint bad.

[Crusader-Rob]

Scarrfie, I followed th linked recipe, closely, used 40g chocolate, and used all gladfield malts, apart from caraamber, I'll be subbing for carared/redback

5kg pale

0.5kg munich

0.4 light crystal

0.2 redback

0.22 dark crystal
40g chocolate

 then I went for the hops bill of

60- 10g simcoe    20- 15g simcoe    10- 30g centennial / 30g amarillo    0- 30g centennial / amarillo

dryhop: 15g amarillo / 15g centennial (it was all I had left)

 I'm thinking this time:

5.1kg pale

0.5 Munich

0.4 pale crystal?

0.2 redback/carared

0.22 dark crystal or spec B (Yakima scarlet uses special B)

40g pale choc

with a similar hop build: changing the amarillo to nelson sauvin but changing the ratio to 1.5Centennial:1Nelson Sauvin

I'll be upping the dry hop as well, probably the same size as the late additions for simplicity.

If I went for southern cross, I'd want to keep the hop build similar again, what sort of ratio would I use centennial:southern cross?

[Scarrfie]

Okay, here is my opinion but keep in mind I haven't brewed an american amber. Just lots of brown ales and a lesser amount of amber/bitters. I have done some average beers of late and I hunted about on here for discussion on NZ malts. Advice I did find was use more specialites and now I have also identified the acid issue, but yet to try a pale with acid malt to correct this. So I am using 70% base malt and the rest specialities plus mashing in the low 70's, although the mash temp is to balance the dry finish of the K-97 yeast.

   10% munich is the businesss and really adds something to the brown ales I bottled last week and tasted last night. It puts me back on track with my brewing, it is really good :-) No late hops means it isn't an american and the spec B and brown as just what I use to calculate my home toasts.

 My thought is that you could could fill that out to 25-30% specialties with medium crystal. A big middle is what I think of in terms of an amber and plenty of sweetness to balance the hops in an american.

  I have used carared when I have run out of home toasted malt and it works well. It didn't work so well at 13% with 4% crystal and the rest base malt. At 8% in amongst 23% specialties it was good, I think you could bump that up to perhaps 400g although it is a lighter sweetness at the same end of the spectrum as the pale crystal. I just noticed in that link that the pale crystal is listed at 50 SRM so do check where your pale crystal sits.

  Hope those musings are useful.

 

[Crusader-Rob]

Thanks Scarrfie, I ended up using Gladfields Light Crystal, which I think is lighter than the 50 mentioned.

I don't think I want to go overboard regarding the addition of specialty malts, I like to keep thing relatively simple to some degree. I think though generally you have a good point.

I think I'm subbing the gladfields redback in for caraamber, and see what that adds or subtracts. I'm just not sure about the gladfields light crystal, it is lighter than the 50srm stated. thinking i might source from elsewhere see what difference i end up with.

dark crystal is also gladfields, which is marginally lighter, but nothing major. i think i might stick with that for now, and same with the choc malt.

my main issues now is the hop schedule.

i reckon i will go with the nelson sauvin hop bill, but ive spent some time on google. and found that apparently simcoe in equal portions is a good mate? I';m just lacking some hop punchiness, both fruity and resin-y

[Crusader-Rob]

Right, so I've almost completely abandoned the idea of centennial and nelson at the moment. I will get there but not this year.

I've decided to go with the simcoe I have in the freezer mixed with Nelson Sauvin. I've heard good thing about this mix, they advised to use retraint in ipa type beers, now this is not strictly an IPA, it is an IRA, so there will be more malt to balance it all out.

The simcoe should give me more of that lovely piney resin, and the nelson..... well we all know what that hop can do if used well.

I've pretty much gone with a very similar malt bill, as its close, but swapped the caraamber out as i said, with cara-red. and increased the gravity a touch (1 point) as i missed my gravity by a point or tow on the beer i'm currently drinking.

my hop bill is as follows, and I'd like people to advise what they think of it and any suggestions they have.

60-10g simcoe

20-15g simcoe

10- 25g nelson / 25g simcoe

01- 25g simcoe / 25g nelson

dryhop: 25g nelson / 25g simcoe.

anyone like to make any further suggestions? I toyed with the idea of removing the 20 min addition, and upping the 60, and the later additions to compensate to a similar IBU.

[oliver]

For the dryhop you could throw the simcoe in earlier than the nelson as I get the impression that american hops aren't quite as susceptible to grassiness - that's what I'm trying in an APA atm anyways.

[Crusader-Rob]

NOT A BAD PLAN OLI. Might add that in, add it a day earlier. 4days simcoe 3 days nelson.