Not bad "FOR A HOME BREW"??

[Nick Good]

Hi there, I am new to this forum and have only just scratched the surface.

I brewed kits for decades for consumption rather than perfection. I got a taste for it sure but it was allways just home brew and never came close to anything off the shelf. Friends would drink it as well and after the initial taste shock could slosh back a fair bit. It was allways not bad for a home brew.

I started getting interested again, after 7 or 8 years not brewing, while talking to a nephew who boils in a bag and gets it " just like the real thing". I visited a couple of brew shops and was blown away by the array of stuff there is now. so I brought a barrel and a sachet of Mangrove jack pale ale and a bag of Copper Tun brew enhancer ( dextrose ect ). Read some online John Palmer and away I went.

I gave the brew a couple of weeks and then bottled. After 1 week I sampled one. It was very clear and the head was very good but it still has that home brew "ping". Sure it was only 1 week. There is another one brewing, blonde with some craft series yeast for cool temps.

Basically what I would like is a beer that doesnt have the home brew taste tag. Is there such a thing? Can I get a decent beer with extracts/kits? I am happy to try things to enhance the quality but I dont really want to have to become a scientist to achieve it. There must be hundreds of people like me out there. Has anyone got any ideas that could help me on this mission or am I doomed to be a ' not bad for a home brew ' brewer?

Thanks for any suggestions and keep up the good work.

[Smiffy]

Two things to get rid of that home-brew taste:

1) use a good yeast meant for the style of beer you are brewing, not a generic one which comes with a kit.

2) don't use sugar, use extra extract or double up on cheap kits.

Yes, you can easily use extract/kits and make home brew which everyone will say "wow, that doesn't taste like home brew".

I got started using one Cooper's lager kit and one Cooper's bitter kit, make 25l, safale S-04 yeast, and you'll get those compliments.

[Crusader-Rob]

Like Smiffy said, the yeast quality is a big thing, but check out this: http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/simple-things-to-avoid...

It has some good hints and tips. and plenty of comments as well.

[Peter Smith]

For me Brewing is like cooking.   When you first start as a kid its all about fish fingers and baked beans,   then you learn to prepare your own ingredients...   sure you can spice up a tin of baked beans, but you will have little control over the final result.   think thai green curry from a jar vs real fresh ingredients...   has that jar tang. or rather lack of real flavour.

I found kits not bitter enough (especially once I added 1kg of LME),  not enough late hops, too much like they where aiming at replicating draught beer not craft beer.   best bitter, irish ale etc etc etc   the ipa's are disappointing compared with AG hoppy brews.

Now its entirely possible that my worst AG brews are not as good as my best kit brews, at least I feel I am in control of my own destiny with AG.  I have mentioned before for time short brewers Fresh Wort has got to be a better option then kit and kilo in my opinion.   I am real busy this week so purchased 15L of ale chaps brew for $45   STEAL   took all of zero mins to brew this...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151671620983087

If you actually go to a liquor store and buy coopers draught beer then the kit may be a good option, but I did not find any kits (possible exception mangrove jacks pilsner)  that really tasted anything like a 8Wired, epic, ale chaps beer etc

[paul m]

Hi Mate, i hear ya, when your mates come over and drink heiniken rather than your homebrew- its time to start refining things! John Palmers book is the bomb!! He's written a book with  another dude Zamil- brewing classic styles- really good practical advise. From my experience and what i've learnt so far is:

1 you can use malt extract and make great beer, check use by dates so its not stale. stale extract can give you the homebrew tang. Use all extract instead of dextrose. Using all grain brewing will give the edge maybe but its way more sciencey and theres more room to cock it up and takes more time on brew day.

2 healthy fermentation- have the fermenter somewhere there is little fluctuation in temperature. ideally use a fridge and temp controller, of all the things i've done to improve my beer this has made the most difference. Don't rush the fermentation- give it another week after you think its stopped before you bottle. 2-3 weeks in the fermenter is pretty normal. Its seems counter intuitive but from what i've read the yeast at the bottom of your barrel will clean up any off flavours "the ping" if left for a week at the end of fermentation before you bottle

3 sanitation -really boring but essential. good clean and i use starsan no rinse sanitizer.

I'm pretty sure if you do these three things and brew "craft" type beers i.e. beers with heaps of malt or hop flavour (not heiniken) then you would definitely trick your mates into thinking they were drinking beer that was $8 a bottle!

actually heres a fourth- time- build up a stockpile so your not drinking the fresh stuff- allow 8 weeks for it mellow. 

[Nick Good]

Hey wow you guys are fast. Thanks so much.

There is one angle  that I want to throw at you and that is cost. If it gets to high many people would have trouble justifying it. Some years back Macs brewery started selling kits and I have allways liked their black mac in small doses so I brewed a couple of batches and they were fantastic. No added sugar and exactly the same as the real thing. But from memory the quantity was around half a normal kit brew and the cost was very high for a home brew kit, to the point where it was almost cheaper to buy " the real thing ". As far as I know they stopped selling them. I had friends that thought the same way. When I used to brew I found that friends were quite happy to sok back my brew because they assumed it was cheap to make and I must have plenty. One time my neighbours wife completely wiped me out of brew. She was a real bit of work!

Things are different these days and I am way to much older, but I think you still have to justify the expense.

 

[Smiffy]

When P&S were selling coopers kits for $11, two of those, plus $3 for a decent yeast, is still only $1/litre.

Now I'm using malt extract and real hops, it might be up to $1.50/l That's not "fancy" beer, but it's good.

Undrinkable piss like tui will cost you $5/l (I'm guessing).

If you spent $40 on two top-end kit cans and made 25l, its still way less than half the price of that.

[Peter Smith]

Thats why Epic 8wired etc are not sold at the same price as Tui , DB etc,  they simply cost more to make.  It costs more to eat at Euro then Dicks Dinner.   We need to make a few distinction here Kit brewing (add kit kilo and water, no boiling etc) / Extract brewing (boils, grain steeps and hops ie unhopped extract / AG.   

Often as people move from kit to extract they add full temp control,  there own hop schedules , liquid yeasts starters etc.    Its possible to make amazing beers with this process but there is still that basic malt mashing process ....     if you consider time for boil and cooling its very close to AG.   I think many process improvement happen as people go from kit to extract/ag.   So its not just a matter of adding one thing , its lots of little things, I personally think yeast starters are very important , but only after temp control, and all that needs great sanitation first...

Which is why I think a lot of people jump extract to go straight to AG.   Almost same time just add mash time,  full control.  My guess is that in NZ  97% of brewers are kit  0.5% extract and maybe 2.5% AG.   

[Nick Good]

Sorry I thought a kit was an extract.

If I use a kit and a malt extract to replace the dextrose will I still get the same good head?

Try to keep it simple if you can. I am one of the 97%.

[Julian Melville]

A kit is just extract pre-mixed with hops to give it bitterness, you add water and yeast and off you go. You can buy the extract by itself and bulk out a kit with it instead of the dextrose, and yes you'll get better results. You could also do a short boil and add some extra hops to give more flavour and aroma.

[Smiffy]

Exactly. My use of the Cooper's lager kit to bulk out the bitter kit was because the lager kit had very little hops in it, and pale malt. Two bitter kits together made a beer which had twice as much bitterness, in other words, the Coppers lager kit was very close to being just pure extract.

[Hayden Baxter]

I'm fairly new to home brewing but have done maybe half a dozen kits before moving to extracts. Eventually I'll move to all grain once I get some more equipment. 

I've noticed even with kits that the higher end ones are a lot better than the cheap ones. You could always try adding things like hops or malt to your kit to enhance it a bit. 

For me it's more of a hobby so I don't mind spending a bit more

[Peter Smith]

I have two mangrove jack pilsner kits in a temp controlled fridge at 10C with Wyeast Budvar yeast (massive decanted 3L starters for each),  they have been fermenting for 2 weeks, about to do a brief diactyl rest then knock them down to 3-4C for 2-3 weeks, we will see if its possible to brew great kits in another 6-8 weeks once these are carbonated.    If not there will be plenty of beer to take on the next fishing trip for the lads.

Home renovations are killing my AG brewing schedule... and now she wants to redo a bathroom as well.