beer phenolics

[Adrian Woodhouse]

Hi all

Posting on behalf of fellow brewer friend of mine who has had a problem with phenolics recently. He has asked some local " experts" but they believe the problem is the bleach he has been using to clean his fermenter, but he's convinced it is the yeast batch S05 as its been slow to activate recently. Has anyone else had similar problems or thoughts as to how to fix he problem.

[Smiffy]

If you find out what the numbers are printed on the yeast sachet, someone else is probably using some of the same.

Is your friend in NZ? or perhaps somewhere where high temperatures are the cause?

If the fermenter is holding some bleach, surely it would be easy to test by leaving some water in it overnight and seeing if that picks up any taste? Or perhaps his pat water has extra chlorine in it?

[Adrian Woodhouse]

Yes he is based in Dunedin so sadly high temps are NOT to blame and he is fermenting in a temperature controlled fridge. He has now ditched his plastic bucket fermenter and built a fully stainless system and the problem has still occurred on the last two occasions. He has now moved to mangrove jacks yeast and the problem has gone, bu it's complete puzzled and he has brewed over 20 brews and hit a certain batch of s05 yeast and it all went hey wire. I will ask him for the batch number and see if anyone else had the same problem.

[Smiffy]

I meant tap water not pat water.I would recommend caustic soda for cleaning stainless steel.

And do let us know about the batch number.

[Peter Smith]

brew with a different liquid yeast and starter and see if its system...  

[JR]

I'm sure he was only using the bleach on the plastic and now has new methods to match the new gear, but just incase,  dont use bleach on stainless steel!!  Stainless hates bleach.

 

[Adrian Woodhouse]

Here is the info from my friend, did anyone else have a similar problem

"Batch no 81815 257 1553 and 81815 257 1613.
Possibly want to clarify that also tried Iodophor for cleaning but still had problems. So wasn’t just bleach cleaning agent. Everything was rinsed with cold water several times afterwards.
Problem only occurred when I used Fermentis Safale us-05 of the above batch number. Whenever I used other yeasts everything was fine regardless of what cleaning agent was used.
Last brew with Safale us-05 (citra blonde) was fine but that was a different batch no."

[Adam Sparks]

There could be a number of things producing phenols in his beer and a problem with the packaged yeast is probably at the bottom of the list (unless its been stored inappropriately) .

Firstly, was the yeast stored properly? Does the place he bought it from store it cold?

What method does he use to aerate his wort? not enough oxygen will lead to low cell counts (and weak cells), and on that note anything contributing to yeast health i.e. calcium at a minimum of 50ppm, magnesium at 10-20ppm? Does he use a yeast nutrient? Does he rehydrate his yeast?

Whats the chlorine/chloramine content of your local water (chlorophenols are apparent at very very low levels)? A half a campden tablet added to your liquor prior to brewing can get rid of this.

Then there's infections but it sounds like your friend has enough experience to hopefully rule this out

[Adrian Woodhouse]

The ort is aerated with a whisk, currently we have not been adding calicum, but on the advice of Richard Emerson we are intending to do so. The yeast is stored in the fridge at the local brew shop. campden tablets sound like a good idea so might try doing that. Thanks for the advice Adam...