Aging, Lagering/ Cold Crashing

[Crusader-Rob]

I've got a large belgian  Dark Strong Ale on thebrewing cards thisyear, and as I'm looking at a long period without brewing I figured I might be able to brew something big, and let it ages for a long time.

the OG is around 1.080-90, with the FG probably around 1.020-ish.

The plan is to ferment for 2 weeks, then rack to glass carboy, for extended aging. an additional period at standard temperature, then down to low temperatures, for aging, as I won't be able to to anything with it.

Questions: How long can I leave this in the carboy for before I should be racking to another vessel, or bottling it?

The second question is what temp should I be "lagering" at?

I'm talking probably 3 months on the sidelines.

My recipe states to ferment for one week, and rack to secondary for 6 weeks, for clearing and aging. So I figure I can still follow the lines of this, but ferment for 2 weeks, rack off the bits and pieces, then seconary for another maybe 2 weeks, for finish anything else off, and then bulk age in glass for around 12 weeks at low temperatures.

Cheers.

[Grant R Baker]

Well a work mate had his Porter in primary for 3 months whilst he did a tour of Europe... and that was a kit. He still talks about that one.

You should try looking at about 4-6C for a long secondary and 2-3 months isn't going to hurt it. The cold temps and high alcohol is going to keep anything nasty at bay.

but... isn't a Belgian Strong ale an Ale and not a lager...? So why the lagering.... Ale yeast will go very dormant at the lower temps lager yeast like.

[Crusader-Rob]

I'll be heading in for shoulder surgery around this time, and won't be able to do any heavy lifting for awhile, and a i wont even be able to move my arm. so I figured, I'd be able to do this, I can't talk the girlfriend into hekping me lol.

How will it changethe final product?

[Grant R Baker]

I'm not sure. By racking the Ale to cold lagering temps it could go completely dormant... .but Scotch Ale is traditionally fermented for at 6-12C for a very long time... so what the heck give it a go.

If you are able to slowly drop the temperature to the lagering target it may not shock the yeast which should help it finish its job.

[Dene McDonald]

Can't even lift your arm... at least you have another drinking arm so it's not all that bad!

[Crusader-Rob]

Very True Dene...

[Damon Colbert]

I wonder if you should leave the Ale in primary a bit longer than two weeks?  A beer like that probably needs a bit of time with the yeast to clean up certain flavours.

That way you can let more of the yeast settle out as well, before racking it to secondary for aging.  I'm not sure at what level it becomes a problem, but leaving high alcohol beer on the yeast cake can cause flavour problems.

At 9% ABV, I would say you could probably leave it in a secondary vessel (without yeast cake) for quite a period of time, maybe several months.  At cold temperatures, even more so.

I second the suggestion to drop the temperature slowly.  Even then, you are likely to crash out a lot of yeast (depending on the strain).

Sounds good though.

[Crusader-Rob]

funny you should say that, the recipe actually states to pull of the beer from the yeast as soon as it reaches fg. which is around 5 days I think.  But that's why I was going to leave it for another week. Maybe your Right Damon, if I leave it for 3 weeks on the yeast, I think that'll be my maximum before I become useless, rack it over, and let it sit for 2 weeks at normal temp, then drop maybe 2 degrees per day? which would mean over the course of a week, I'd get down to crashing temp.

When it comes to bottling it, I assume I'll need to add more yeast for carbonation? unless I keg it?lol

[Damon Colbert]

I guess the recipe says that to avoid any autolysis flavours from sitting on the yeast cake?

I should point out I have no experience with high-alcohol beers.  Take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

It's on my mind at the moment, because I'm looking at doing a barleywine some time soon.  I'm conflicted between getting the high-alcohol beer off the yeast cake, and leaving the beer with enough yeast to clean up any fermentation by-products.

I will have to remember to chat to some of the more experienced guys about it at the next SOBA meeting.

Yeah I'd say you will want to re-yeast.  Supposedly a freshly re-hydrated dry yeast will be healthy enough to carbonate a high-alcohol beer.  Anything left behind in your carboy will be pretty sick from sitting under 9% alcohol for that long.

[Crusader-Rob]

DOESN'T MENTION IT?

[Grant R Baker]

When you rack the beer it will still contain an amount of active yeast, depending on the yeast used there should be little need for another yeast additive.

All my heavy ales get 7-10 days in the primary, up to 6 weeks in the secondary (unless I need the carboy for another brew)... I've never had a problem.

[Crusader-Rob]

All the research I've done suggests, a long low temp secondary to add a small amount of yeast when bottling, to ensure carbonation. maybe the dry cask conditioning yeast?

the temperature information i have suggests around 10-12 degrees C, too low and it doesn't age as well. 7 degrees I've read is too low.

[Dougal]

If I were you I'd stay in primary for 3 weeks to make sure the beer finishes out, then rack to a carboy for cold aging. If you want to rack to secondary then the traditional time is during active fermentation when the beer reaches 1/2 to 2/3 of terminal gravity- usually a few days up to a week in.

True lagering can actually lower the gravity a few points even at 2C because lager yeast remain slightly active at cold temperatures. Belgian yeasts are heat lovers, so you'll be cold conditioning at 10-12C, which is good for the final beer, but you'll definitely get more cleaning up of flavours post fermentation if you stay warm for the first few weeks.

After aging a big beer you'll need to dose with some fresh yeast at bottling to ensure carbonation. I have 20 litres of flat bottled imperial stout that demonstrates it isn't worth the risk :-)