Mash temperatures

[Crusader-Rob]

Hi Everyone, as I am still coming to grips with my All Grain Setup. I have partially dialled in my Water volumes (theres still a little way to go yet). However I am trying to sort the temps out on Beersmith, as it tells me to heat my strike water to 75 deg C for a mash temp of 66.7 deg, both times i ended up with 63-64 temperature, adding 1-1.5 litres of water only raises it by about half a degree.

 I have 2 questions: 

1- how do I change the temps on beersmith to reflect the mash temperatures I'm getting so i can heat my strike water correctly and hit my mash temperatures spot on.

2-obviously a higher temperature gives more unfermentables, I tend to like my IPA's a little bit sweeter, and balance it out with hops etc. I was thinking about just heating my strike water to 80 degrees and mashing that way, then I'll probably hit a good temperature of around 69-70 degrees. is this ok?

3- what is the maximum temperature i can mash at before i start removing some bad stuff from the malt?

and finally 4- is there a ratio of unfermentables per degree of increase in temperature? i.e mashing at a certain temperature hgow much will it change my FG?

thanks all.

Rob

[martin w]

1-i don't use beersmith but if its the same as beeralchemy you have to enter what type of vessel you are using (cooler,pot etc)and the weight,the temp should be adjusted from that.

2-should be ok,don't go much higher than that though.a less attenuative yeast may give better results though.

3-you'll denature the enzymes before you extract tannins etc-its somewhere around 77c that this can happen although correct ph levels should prevent that

4-don't know but i wouldn't think much

length of mash also affects the sugar profile,if the wort is sat in the kettle at 60-70 ish whilst you sparge the enzymes are still working their magic on it

[Ralph]

Yup. There is a setting for your mash tun, its weight etc and a tick box to get the specific heat of the mash tun put into the equation.... all under the mash tab in Beersmith.

[Crusader-Rob]

So, its in the mash Tab, cos the only one i can find is to manually enter a higher temperature than what i need an it will probably hi my temps. the 2 AG's I've done I did 74 degc i think and i ended up mashing in at 64 for an hour. then the second on i got 76 and still ended up at the same temperature, and added boiling water and ended up with 65... Zane. any chance you can take a screenshot of where I can do what you are saying?

So if I heat my strike water to 80 and mash in at say 70 degrees I'll be ok?, 

What happens when you mash for 90mins? you obviously get more sugar, so would I expect the mash I'm looking for? I have done a couple of Partial beers and ended at 1.014-1.016 and in my Pale ales its quite nice... especially with the darker Crystals involved.

I'm mashing in on sunday, No doubt a sore head after Crate day...

[Ralph]

Sorry Rob, I am not on the computer that has beersmith on it at the mo. the mash tun weight and volume is under equipment profile. You will probably need to set your own one up like described here http://beersmith.com/equipment-setup/

Then there is a tick box on the mash tab when in your recipe where you can select "adjust for equipment temperature" or something and you can enter the temp of your grain and mash tun and the program will adjust the temp of your strike water

[Crusader-Rob]

All Good mate.

 

By the way, does the Water-Grain Ratio ?Make a difference to this?

The Ratio I've been using is 2.8l/kg and when you change to full body beer its goes down to 2.6l/kg approx.

[Kelly Milligan]

Hey Rob, 

Mash thickness makes a minimal difference compared to the temperature. 2-3L per KG is sweet as. 

Mashing for 90 mins instead of 60 will make a more fermentable wort, as the enzymes have more time to keep cutting things up before they're full denatured in the kettle. 

Mashing in above 68-69c will give you a pretty steep rise in FG, because at those temperatures you denature the beta amalayse which only operates at like 60-67c. The beta creates maltose sugars which are more easily processible by the yeast than the Maltotriose created by the alpha amalayse which cuts away at 63-71ish degrees :) I'm a big advocate of mashing a bit higher, around 68, then attenuate fully with a really healthy fermentation. That way you get body without excessive sweetness

Ralph is spot on with the mash tun temp settings in BeerSmith. Other things you could try is taking a few litres of sparge water and swishing it around the mash tun to heat it up before you start adding grain and shizzle.

This is just one of those things though that you need to dial in on your specific system. Every time you brew on the same piece of kit you get better at hitting your numbers :)

[Tom C]

Never used Beersmith myself, but this article is what I've always relied on for calculating strike temperatures with great accuracy: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_other/AlexT_StrikeTemp.htm

And as the flash calculator no longer appears on the page I made this very easy spreadsheet to do it for me.

[mattd2]

My biggest issue is figuring out who much to add to account for heating my mash tun. Does the G&G article take this into account, or does it assume you MLT is preheated? Since mine is SS I guess I could easily add it to you spreadsheet as another couple of lines for the weight and temp and plug in the specific heat of SS.

Just thought I would point out a trick for new players as I have been caught short (low) myself.

[Tom C]

It doesn't allow for that. 

I simply start with my water several degrees hotter than required.  Heating the MT and stirring will bring it down to the desired strike temperature in a few minutes.  Then dough-in, stir the mash and it's bang on.

[mattd2]

Might start doing it that way, I have been adding the water to the grains already in the MLT - Makes it hard to adjust the temp before it is to late! Then I am either scrambling to heat up water to add or stirring like mad to drop it (and then usually I then go to low so have to try raise it again!).

[Crusader-Rob]

Kelly, yeah I do the swirling thing to heat things up, but it seems to struggle. Thanks so far, but my next issue is hitting that mash temp, my sunday beer is to be mashed at 68.5ish, based on hbt.com conversions fro degrees farenheit. so ideally if i had to I'd like to hit 69

the problem now is to hit the right strike temperature.

So instead of 80 i was thinking probably 78-79 strike temp.

[Kelly Milligan]

Cool man,

Well what I'd recommend is mash in with your strike water at 78c, and keep track of how much it takes for you to achieve a stabilization temp at your 69c mark. Don't worry about how much your water:grist ratio ends up being, just add enough water to hit your temp correctly. Once you figure out how much water was required to achieve that you should be able to shuffle around the equation to find that missing variable for heat loss. Having the temp where you want it in the mash will make far more difference than having a thinner mash :)

Another thing to double check is your thermometer, make sure it's reading accurately by testing it against boiling water