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Hi there,

 

have been lurking for a while, but need some specific advice...  I am on to my 6th brew, which is due for bottling.  I have previously used carbonation drops, but on my last brew I tried the bottling bucket approach where I dissolved 112gr of sugar in 1.5 cups of water, boiled for a bit, cooled, then added it to the bottling bucket followed by the beer (20L ).  I have just cracked a bottle (3 weeks later) and it is rather flat.  It was a coffee porter, and I was aiming for 2.3 carbonation level.

 

Currently I have 38L of pale ale ready to bottle and I don't want it to be flat (or conversely over carbonated)?  My last ratio accorded to beersmith and the John Palmer recommendation.  Any obvious errors in my previous bottling bucket approach?  Comments / thoughts?

 

Cheers and beers,

JumpR.

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I have just finished two hours in the garage bottling my pale ale.  Batch primed using table sugar, as per the beersmith setting.  Although beersmith tells me table sugar is more efficient relative to corn sugar (so it recommended I use less table sugar than I would have if I used corn sugar)?  I realise a porter should not be over carbonated, but the last bottle I had was bacically flat. 

oh, yes. Right you are. Mine is around that way as well!

 Dont mean to hi-jack and ever so slightly off topic, Altho a newbie ive got a fair amount of brews under my belt and havnt had this issue but has anyone had problems with opening a 3-4 month old bottle primed with drops and its basically gushed out and mixed up big clumps of the sediment in the bottle? It was a pale ale i had originally transferred to secondary, dry hopped then bottled with 2 drops per 750ml fliptop after 2 weeks in said 2ndary. I'm pretty militant with sanitizing and the primary had got down to 1.014. If i'm quick i get a crystal clear beer in the first pour then the sediment clouds the rest. (looks like milk thats curdled floating thru my beer) Temp fluctuations? Dare i say it Gusher bug? Too many variables to pinpoint? Any ideas would be appreciated as i too am looking at batch priming as my next step forward. 

That sounds like you are over-priming? It could be an infection or something, but most likely it just has too much carbonation and the bubbles are ripping the sediment off the bottom of the bottle when you open it. It may be that the beer was not quite finished fermenting and so over the 4 months or so the extra bit has fermented and has over carbonated?

Yeh does make sense, especially when i'm using a 'standard'dose with the drops. I believe moving onto batch priming will give me more control with carbonation, relevant to the style ive brewed. And less likely that it will happen again now i look at the remaining bottles mustve been too early cause there is quite a bit of sediment in the bottle (more so than in other batches i still have) seems that the remaining yeast wouldve been gorging on the remaining sugars during the warmer months. ( i store my bottles in the basement/garage but prob wouldve been mild enough to set em off over summer) cheers for the advice
Did the beer reach terminal gravity? If not there may be lots of still hungry yeast around, that can definitely lead to gushing when bottle conditioning. If its infection led gushing it'll taste bad, how does the beer taste?

Well, I followed the advice given, and stored the brew in my hot water cupboard.  Carbonation all good now..  By the way, I did some maths on carbonation drops - my sugar level (112gr) accorded to the recommended beersmith carb level of 2.3.  Had I used 2 x carb drops (@ 4 gr per drop) I would have added around 200gr of sweetness (and hit a carb level of 3+!).  Having said that I have grown to like higher carb beers...

Glad to hear it's working for you now dude :) 

Hey folks, I am after another bit of advice on carbonation. I have a pale ale that I bottled some time ago and primed to 2.7 carbonation level. When I pour it, the beer is well carbed, but towards the end of the glass it is pretty much dead flat? The issue remains with subsequent pours into the same glass (so assume it is not due to soap residue on my glasses). Has anyone else had such a problem? Any ideas on what caused this / how to prevent? Cheers, JumpR.

 I thought Id revive this thread as its relevant. I bottle carbonate using the bulk priming method. I use dextrose and Beersmith to calc the corn sugar weight. I tend to leave my bottles in the garage to carbonate and adjust the sugar weight based on the ambient temp that the beer will carbonate at (winter 11 deg, summer 18 deg)

It seems counter intuitive to me that the lower the beer temp the lower the sugar weight required. I normally shoot for 2.5 co2 vols. If I use 11deg beer temp that would give me 113g for 21L. If I use  18deg it gives me 134g.

I find that at 134g its over carbed and 113g its a little lighter than I would like. Im thinking of just using say 120g regardless and maybe leaving the bottles at room temp for 5 days before putting in shed.

How much dextrose do others use for 21L at 2.5vols? Can anyone shed any light on why the sugar weight drops with beer temp (im just curious on this one). Cheers

Beersmith is asking what temp the beer is at bottling time. Not the temp it will be stored at. If you ferment at 19C then that is what you put in as the temp. If you were kegging then it would be the temp the keg would be stored at.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1271-priming-with-sugar

Priming with Sugar

Author:  Robert McGillIssue: November 2006

If you want to fine tune your carbonation levels, you need to go beyond simply adding three-quarters of a cup of sugar to your bottling bucket. In this article, we will take you from the chemistry of sugars, to the contribution of residual carbon dioxide to getting the right level of carbonation for your homebrew. Plus: A web-only bonus - carbonation charts for three different sugars.

Priming with Sugar 

Proper carbonation of beer enhances its quality. The relatively low carbonation of British beers accentuates their maltiness while the higher carbonation of European and American beers gives them a lighter, more spritzy taste. It also brings out the aroma of the hops. An undercarbonated beer is flat and lifeless; an over carbonated beer fills your glass with foam and not beer. Proper carbonation for the style beer you brew is important to its enjoyment. An adequate level of carbonation in also required in order to have a good foam stand.

There are three methods used to carbonate beer: priming with sugar or wort, forced carbonation and the retention of carbon dioxide gas (CO2) generated late in fermentation. Most homebrewers add a measured amount of corn sugar or cane sugar to their bottling bucket to bottle condition their beers. The sugar is consumed by the yeast and CO2 is produced.

Glucose and Sucrose

Glucose is a six-carbon sugar. There are two isomers of glucose — D-glucose and L-glucose. The “D” form is produced and consumed by biological organisms and D-glucose is often called dextrose. D-glucose extracted from corn is often called corn sugar.

Glucose (or dextrose or corn sugar) powder is sold in two different forms — anhydrous glucose and glucose monohydrate, both of which are white powders. Anhydrous glucose is pure glucose. (Anhydrous means “without water.’) Glucose monohydrate is glucose with one molecule of water complexed with each glucose molecule. Nine percent of the weight of glucose monohydrate is due to water and it will not contribute to CO2 production during bottle conditioning. Anhydrous glucose is hygroscopic (it absorbs moisture from the air) and will form “rocks” if not stored in a sealed container.

If you are wondering whether your corn sugar is anhydrous glucose or glucose monohydrate, make a 3 x 3 inch (7.6 x 7.6 cm) tray out of aluminum foil, with 1-inch (2.5-cm) sides. Weigh out about an ounce (28 g) of corn sugar in the tray and put it in your oven at 275 °F (135 °C). This temperature will drive off the complexed water. Remove the tray after 30 minutes and reweigh. Kick your oven temperature up to 300 °F (149 °C), a temperature that will melt the glucose. Reweigh. I found a 10% drop in weight, confirming that my corn sugar is glucose monohydrate.

Sucrose is a two-subunit sugar composed of glucose and fructose (another six-carbon sugar). The major sources of sucrose is sugar cane (cane sugar) and sugar beets (beet sugar). Like glucose, sucrose is white powder. Unlike glucose, sucrose does not form hydrated complexes, nor is it hygroscopic.

From Chemistry to Carbonation

Below this paragraph are the chemical reactions that take place during bottle conditioning. Using these reactions, we can derive an equation to calculate carbonation levels from sugar additions.

Using the information from this chart, and some basic chemical relationships, we can derive the following formula for 5.00-gallon (18.9-L) batches of beer:

(X g glucose) x (88 g CO2/180 g glucose) x (1 mole/44 g CO2) x (22.4 L/mole) x (1/18.9 L beer) = Y volumes of CO2

where X is the weight of (anhydrous) glucose and Y is the level of carbonation. For example, if you add 3.0 oz (85 g) of anhydrous glucose, you would generate 85 x 0.489 x 0.0227 x 22.4 x 0.0529 = 85 x 0.0132 = 1.12 volumes of CO2 in 5.0 gallons (19 L) of beer.

Analogous equations can be derived for glucose monohydrate and sucrose using the information from their chemical reactions. These equations will tell you how many of volumes of CO2 are generated by a given amount of sugar.

If you don’t want to calculate these volumes on your own, click on this link for the carbonation priming charts.

Residual Carbon Dioxide

One must remember that, after fermentation, your beer is saturated with carbon dioxide at atmospheric pressure. Although an ale may seem “flat” when sampled from the fermenter, there is a small amount of gas dissolved in it. Lagers usually have a low, but noticeable, level of carbonation immediately after fermentation.

Beer carbonation tables available in the books I have do not extend to zero gauge pressure (1 atmosphere at sea level). They also do not include fermentation temperatures above 60 °F (16 °C), because they are presented for force carbonation use, and beers — even in England — are not generally served at temperatures higher than this. For the same reason, these tables do not show carbonation levels at atmospheric pressure where many fermentations occur.

However, the data presented can be accurately extended to atmospheric pressure using Henry’s Law, which says that the amount of gas absorbed in a liquid at a given temperature is directly proportional to the pressure of that gas in equilibrium with the liquid. Using Henry’s Law for the carbonation charts and a curve fit to extend the data to higher fermentation temperatures, I developed the graph below.

Level of Carbonation in Bottle

To determine the carbonation volumes expected in your final beer, you need to add the priming sugar contribution to the volumes present prior to the addition of the priming sugar. For example, I ferment my ales at about 65 °F (18 °C). This means that I have about 0.89 volumes of CO2 present before priming. If the beer is a British bitter, I would add 2.5 oz. (70 g) of my corn sugar to my bottling bucket, which would add an additional 0.85 volumes of CO2, giving me an expected 1.74 volumes, near the middle of the range shown for British ales.

Keep in mind that, if your beer warms up after fermentation, it will lose CO2. This will not happen instantaneously, though. However, lowering your beer’s temperature will not increase the level of CO2, unless a source of CO2 is present. (Continuing fermentation or CO2 from an outside source — like CO2 cylinder — are the two most likely possibilities.) If you want to accurately estimate your residual amount of carbon dioxide, hold your fermentation temperature constant and add the priming sugar to the beer at this same temperature. You may then warm the beer up for bottle conditioning, if needed.

Priming in Style

Different styles of beer call for different levels of carbonation. The following table outlines the appropriate ranges for various beer styles:

Style & Volumes of CO2

American ales 2.2–3.0
British ales 1.5–2.2
German weizens 2.8–5.1 
Belgian ales 2.0–4.5
European Lagers 2.4–2.6
American Lagers 2.5–2.8

Three-Quarters of a Cup?

You may be wondering — do I need to bother with all of this? Can’t I just keep adding 0.75 cups of corn sugar? The answer, of course, is up to you, but here are some facts.

Three quarters of a cup of corn sugar (glucose monohydrate), which weighs around 4.5 oz. (128 g), added to an ale fermented at 70 °F (21 °C) would yield about 2.5 volumes of CO2. However, if you add the same amount to a beer that was fermented and primed at 50 °F (10 °C), you get about 2.9 volumes of CO2.

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