Kieselsol / Gelatine Finings

[Chris]

I recently put down some Isinglass Finings on a mail order. The goods arrived today but the Isinglass was out of stock so I've been sent a Kieselsol/Gelatine product instead.

Now I like my beers pure and free from chemicals so I'm dubious about this one, I've heard of Gelatine finings but what is Kieselsol? It also mentions Citric Acid (E330) and 'Preservative' (E202) on the label. They don't sound good.

What do you guys reckon? Should I chuck it in the brew or chuck it in the bin?

[Chris]

p.s. The reason I was going to use Isinglass in the first place was to speed up the clearing of the yeasty taste to the beer.

[Dan]

Sounds to me like they do a good job at clearing, see what you think!

Kieselsol is a generic name for aqueous suspensions of silicon dioxide. Kieselsol is a byproduct of the
glass industry. Most, kieselsols are produced in Germany and are sold as 30% colloid solutions. The primary use of
kieselsol is for clarification and as a replacement for tannin during gelatin fining of white wines. Kieselsols are negatively
charged and electrostatically bind to and adsorb positively charged proteins and initiate flocculation and settling. Several
different kieselsol formulations are available at a variety of pH levels. Use a kieselsol that is recommended.

E202, (Potassium sorbate) An antifungal and antibacterial preservative, found in many food items.

[Chris]

Thanks Dan.

Sounds like it will do the job that's for sure! From what I've read (see links on my profile page) it is a pretty hard-core fining, whereas Isinglass is a bit gentler.

I'm all for speeding up clearing as I'm having to wait a minimum of 3 months at the moment for the beer to completely lose it's yeasty taste. But I am very conscious of using additives in my beer and I just wonder whether this is 'ethical' for using in real ale?

[Chris]

Hmmm, did a bit more research and it's put me off using Kieselsol (aka Silica gel). I wanted a fining that removed yeast and it sounds like Isinglass is better at that. And I also have my doubts about adding it to a 'pure' beer.

"carrageenan-based [irish moss] products ... primarily reduce hazes caused by proteins, but isinglass is used at the end of the brewing process, after fermentation, to remove yeast. Since the two fining agents act differently (on different haze-forming particles) they are not interchangeable and some beers make use of both." (Wikipedia)


"Sometimes called by its German name, Kieselsol, Silica gel is a potent, if not the best single haze clarifier available. ... One hesitation with the use of silica gel as a fining is that its use in unfiltered beer has not been approved by the FDA. In fact, the FDA has a mandatory warning stating that beer treated with silica gel must be decanted before drinking." (ref)

[Stu McKinlay]

what yeast are you using?
i'd doubt that any beer i make, a couple of weeks after fermentation, tastes "yeasty" to anyone but a few of the most sensitive tasters I've come across.

don't get hung up on "pure", to the degree of not making the best beer you can.

[Chris]

I use Safale S-04, US-05 and Saflager S23, depending on the style I'm making.

It's funny you should say that, I was talking to a guy in the homebrew shop yesterday who gave me a taste of a 2 week old brew. It still needed a bit of time but wasn't too bad. I'll have to review my methods to see what's going on.

I guess the thing to do is to give this stuff a try and see how it compares with Isinglass. Might split a brew and try one in each 'half', see how they compare over time.

[Stu McKinlay]

Perhaps there is something else going on with your process - are you using extract or all-grain?

What would you say yeasty tastes like? Have you given your beer to people who you would trust could pick up faults?

I don't like to make changes to my processes unless I'm really sure I know what I'm changing for.

[Chris]

I use extract with converters, hops, etc.

I see what you're getting at. I had assumed the off-taste was from yeast and everyone who tried it agreed with me, but then none of them are great beer connoisseurs and certainly none of them know much about brewing. So it could possibly be due to something else.

It's really very hard to describe what the taste is like, all I can say is it's what I imagine yeast would taste like, kind of a doughy flavour. Basically the way the malt tastes in the first few days of fermenting, that strong taste that comes through.

It's a shame I can't describe it in more detail, or even better upload a sample! I guess what I could do is see how the next batch goes and take it into my local homebrew shop and ask them for an opinion. No shortage of people in there who know a thing or two about brewing!

I agree completely, I wouldn't change anything without good reason as my beer is very acceptable. The only problem is it takes a long while until it's ready to drink. If I can find a way of speeding this up I'm willing to make modifications.

Thanks for that, a new angle for me to think about. Would certainly be important to confirm the cause of the problem before I try and fix it.

[Stu McKinlay]

I often find that the "tang" of extract is confused with yeast.
Certainly worth getting some advice from any of the more knowedgeable locals. And enter the SOBA homebrew competition while you are at it.

Good luck.

[Barry]

I always found my extract beers took much longer to become drinkable. All grain beers on the other hand I reckon are best fresh - most of the styles I brew anyway.
I use gelatin to fine my beers, often they're drinking very well within 2 weeks of fermentation starting. Pretty clear into the keg, first couple of pints cloudy but then clear. Very bright/crystal clear by the end of the keg.
When you say they taste yeasty, is the beer obviously hazy from yeast?

[Chris]

Stu: I have considered the SOBA competition. Will see what this next batch turns out like.

Barry: Do you use anything with the gelatin or just on its own? The beer is hazy yes. This clears over time.

[Barry]

I use boiled water, cooled (still hot, just not boiling - don't use boiling unless you want beer jelly). About 200ml and a teaspoon of plain unflavoured/uncoloured davis gelatin. Dissolve completely, and then I pour into the top of my fermenter once primary fermentation is complete. Risks oxidation, but no issues for me so far. Alternatively you could put the finings into another fermenter and rack on top.

I leave the beer a further 3 or so days and then keg.

I know of some who put their finings into the keg and rack on top, works just as well from what I hear.

If you're bottling, fine and leave for a few days, then bottle. There will still be plenty of yeast left.

For what it's worth, many many real ale brewers use isinglass or gelatin. it's totally acceptable when you want faster turnaround. My beers would take an age to clear on their own, they are quite hazy until I fine.