cheap entry into electric brewing

[paul m]

Hi All,

I've found Reubens Blog v. useful ,and keen to go the electric route rather than gas bottle and ring burner. I'm still on the gas hob and 'er indoors don't want a brewery in the kitchen!

I've bought a 51L ss pot and will do 25L to 38L batches (two corny kegs). Any ideas on whats the budget way to get started down the electric route?

I'm thinking a 3kw element and then plug it into the wall.  My query is  what's the cheap way to control the heat output of the element? Is there some sort of variable resistor with a dial wired between the element and the wall? or is the way to go some sort of tempcontroller with sensor like with the fridge fermenter brewmate type thing?

All advise is appriciated

[RopenutS]

What kinda Amps would one of those Crown hot water urns be pulling?  They are safe for boiling wort arn't they?

 

[Vesku]

Anything you can plug into the normal wall socket is 10 Ampere's or less. Over that and you get a different kind of plug. Pretty sure of that ;) At least there's a 15A plug with a bigger earth lead and of course the oven socket for bigger currents.

 

Paul -> if you use 2 elements the current will double, or are you planning to use two because the limitations of your ssr's?

[RopenutS]

Cheers pal

[paul m]

i've read the two element setup on the homebrewtalk website. If i get  an ssr with 4 or 6  setting and 2 elements then that will give me 8 or 12 in total so more control there. Also i'm thinking to up my wattage to 4 plus. so 2.4 x 2 is 4.8kw. I see the electric brewery website uses 5.5kwatt. So just thinking i don't want to be under-gunned on my bigger batches plus it would make for a quicker brew session. They'd be on two separate circuits as would my HLT which would be 2.4kw. this all depends on what my sparky recommends and is cheapest. The advantage of the single element is no double up on ssr controllers one hole to drill etc.

any advise welcome

cheers

 

Paul

[mattd2]

Disclaimer: I am not a sparky and all the comments below are just my understanding of what I have read on electric homebrew setups (most US based), and NZ electrical forums/websites.

I'm am a bit confused with the SSR with 4 or 6 setting comment, can you explain that? As far as I have seen most people either use a PID controller (get one with a manual mode) or a PWM to control the "power" going to the elements.

Is the electric brewery website you are talking about Kal's? If so remember he is in the US so their power is much different to ours. They have 120V mains and usually have 2 live feeds into a house, they either connet across 1 live and nutural for 120V or across the 2 lives (180 degrees out of phase) for 240V. They really only use the 240V for stuff that needs it so thet usually means they have larger breakers for that service (can be 32A+) meaning they can run those 5500W elements with, relative, ease.

With NZ being on 240V mains, most house I have lived in have 20 amp breakers for power sockets (and the wires in the walls would be sized for this rating), giving you 4800W max for the breaker rating, running close to this might give you issue with the breaker tripping randomly even though you think you are under the limit. And rememeber (as you seem to be aware) most plug sockets are only rated at 10 amps, although the wire behind the wall should be rated to the breaker load (16 or 20 amps usual).

What do you mean running on 2 seperate circuits (again be cautious if this is something you picked up on a US site)? Most power points in a room are run from the same breaker so be cautious. If you are below the breaker rating it should be ok I think.

 

[paul m]

yes, i'm thinking two separate circuits meaning two separate breakers. About the confusion re the ssr setting. I've misunderstood that aspect, i think i neeed a simmerstat (15 amp $40 from JA Russel) that is continuously variable so even more control there.

Also FYI kals website is from canada although i'd guess they are the same voltage as US. Thanks for your response.

I'll get more clearer direction after meeting with my sparky. He said he'd come friday, just not which friday! tradesmen eh!;)

[Vesku]

There are heating elements that share the same housing, so you only need to drill one hole and still have 2 elements. I've one 3kW in my setup (1.5kW+1.5kW).

 

PWM controller is very easy to do, 1st google hit:

http://www.dprg.org/tutorials/2005-11a/index.html

Just replace the motor with the SSR and use a bigger capasitor C1.

 

I used simple thermostat control circuit (the attached picture) in my HERMS. I modified it with a PWM-setup. If the temperature is well below the pulse is wide and when it's close what is set, just a tiny pulse. This reduces over and under shoot a lot, kept water +-0.4C from the set value. Would work nice with HLT too, although I would buy a PID if I would do it again.

[mattd2]

Wow... that's intense, designing and building your own proportional controller. How much did you end up spending on it though?

Yeah I got a 2 kW 3-heat (2 phase element), the other sweet thing with them is depending how you wire it up you can get 25%, 50% and 100% power just from changing what is connected to where.

[Vesku]

I spend maybe somewhere around $50, but I had some stuff lying around anyway. And heaps of working hours, wouldn't do it again. And still some issues with the design, would need a reference voltage supply to be more stable, but with the thermal mass of mash, no need for super stable design.

I would use something like THIS and a SSR now. Cheaper and better, if it works...been Chinase.

[Quinn]

:) i helped lay a 12 amp line to a mates garage it was from a secondry box so therefore only had a $45 certificate fee:)

Its alot more if you are doing it from your main box

[Anton]

Hi All

Just started converting my kettle and mash tun to electric. I've been looking at temperature control for HERMS and wondered if anyone uses the BCS (Brewery control system) by these guys: http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/index.php/

Looks pretty cool and could be an all in one solution, but not sure if there are issues between american/NZ or the accuracy of the thing....any advice would be much appreciated!

Cheers

[Vesku]

 

I want one! ;) Shouldn't be an issue to get it working here, might need a new power adapter. It would be great with HERMS to have 2 temperature sensors (mash&heat exchanger) to control the mashing more precisely. 

 

With the HERMS, to make it work without over/under shoots:

- use as small as possible kettle for the heat exchanger

- apply a whirlpool in the heat exchanger chamber (bread making machines have great motors for the propeller)

- place the sensor in the heat exchanger water

 

The heat exchanger can be used for cooling the wort too; leave enough room in the heat exchanger chamber for a float valve that can be used to control the cold water input.

 

Added a picture of my setup (although the propeller motor in the picture burned and has been replaced with a bigger one).