CS3 - The Drunken Popes' St. Paddies Steadfast Stout

[HerrSchnapps]

St. Paddies Steadfast (Oat) Stout

4.5kg NZ Pale
350g Roast Barley
250g Chocolate
200g Rolled Oats (the only new addition)
150g Crystal 120L
50g Black Patent
28g Pacific Gem @ 60 mins

OG 1.050 IBU: 40
Mash 60 mins at 67, no-chill, Wyeast 1084. Fermented at 18c.

Hopefully this is a little better than the Honey Brown Ale...

[JoKing]

Not a bad effort boys...

Needs to be served warm (14 degrees ish) to really appreciate some of the finer characters in this brew. Like I'm looking at all that roasted malt - and I'm shuddering thinkinging - astringent... bluh! BUT THEN... I served mine at about 10 degrees, and was suprised at how not astringent this is. Good clarity too.

The aroma is pretty dry, has some hints of "fire meets barley" as well as some milkyness. Not OTT with complexity - not a bad thing... good quaffable value.

Upon drinking, more dryness... some roast, a bit of chocolate. But there is this crazy minty character riding along with these flavours... all the way to the finish. I'd say it's a fermentation character, but could be thrown up by the hops on the same token. Dunno if it's a bad thing - I dont know a hell of a lot about stouts... so can't comment on how this relates to style.

Overall, it's not a bad brew - pretty clean, neutral fermentation. Very dry - can't offer any advise on improving it though, as my stout basis is pretty limited.

Cheers lads... you fellas keep up the good work.

[HerrSchnapps]

Yeah I should probably have mentioned that, serve warm.

[HerrSchnapps]

Bah, sorry but you've both been too nice so far lol. We want criticism, don't be afraid to tell us what's wrong, what's not right, and what you think we could do better :)

Though I find the minty character crazy, we'll have to open the last bottle soon and see if we can pick it out!

[JoKing]

It's not nice to be mean Mr M. But I suppose if you dan't ask... you won't know. This is my 2c for you...

If you go by Oatmeal stout standards, Your's is on the lower end of SG & FG,but is on the upper end of IBU - working towards an overall impression of dryness and enhancing the perception of bitterness. Compared to other Oatmeal stouts I've had, and comparing what I remember about them - the other ones had a moderate body with some substantial richness on the palate. The bitter / sweet balance is more balanced... even leaning towards the sweet side.

Now here is the disclaimer... yours would go down well as a dry stout, but as an "Oatmeal Stout" it's probably too dry, lacking the complexity, body and sweetness of an Oatmeal Stout. But this could have been what you were after... In which case... these comments don't count for anything.

But... if it were me doing an Oatmeal stout... I would probably shoot for the following vitals:

1.055SG
1.016FG
30 - 35 IBU
5.1% ABV

I would keep your recipe and just increase the Oats to 500g. Maybe up the Pale to get that 1.055. I'd make sure my LGR was between 2:1 and 2.5:1 to enhance the mouthfeel. I'd mash at 68 to ensure there are a bunch of dextrines left in the beer. And most importantly I would make sure I had enough carbonate alkalinity in there to get the Mash pH up and reduce overall acidity in the beer. I think with Porters and Stouts - your water chemistry is even more important than most other recipe components... especially with the amount of roasted grains in this recipe. I would recommend you get a water report from your district council, checking out the water chemistry section here. Once you understand how to adjust your water, I would download this spreadsheet
so as to give you the quantities of the minerals needed to adjust your mash. If that is still too confusing, I would recomment listening to these podcasts 1 2 3 4
I typed all this out before in my 1st comment, but I didn't want to comment on what "I think you should have done" on everybodys CS beers: I thought it would be better for you if I just say what I'm tasting in your brew. Because - there is nothing wrong with your beer anyway... it may well have turned out the way you wanted! It may seem a bit OTT or unnecessary at first - but once you get used to it.... it really is worth it. Plus it's all free information... so it's worth it.

Sorry about the rant - but you asked!

[HerrSchnapps]

Thanks for that, much appreciated :) Yeah I have to admit the beer is actually a dry stout, but we thought we'd try chucking some oats in it and see how it'd go. If I was going to redo it with oats, 200g in hindsight was way too low, and I'd be bumping it up to at least 400-500g (as you said) next time. Actually, with your comments, I think we'll keep it as a dry stout sans oats (or at least not mention that small amount) and formulate a new recipe for a proper Oat Stout.

It's hard to criticise your own beer when you've been drinking it for so long (that recipe without oats was our first AG brew, this is the 6th batch of St Paddies, first with oats). I'll look into our water profile more too (already have the ChCh water profile).

Thanks! :)

[denimglen]

Have been writing up a recipe for a (dry) stout tonight, so this seems the go.

Roasty, coffee aroma, a little berry too that comes with the roast.

Opaque black in colour, thin, creamy, tan head.

Good flavour, a good roasty-fruitiness. Burnt toast.

Tasty, I'm really liking this beer.

I read the rest of this thread after making the above comments and I agree with Jo. Some water chemistry wizardry is important with these dark beers and our soft water, this is just a touch thin/watery/acidic and some water adjustments would make the beer really 'pop'.

Again, as Jo already mentioned, is verging on a dry stout, and minus crystal and oats would be excellent example of the style I think - some mash adjustments, a little more crystal and/or oats this would be absolutely perfect I think.

Brew strong!

[Soren]

my attempt to drink the hoppy beers first lasted until I got the cravings for a stout, luckily I had one on hand.
awesome label.
opague black, not much head.
roasted aromas and I get a distinct anise smell. wow it's almost like the 2009 Emersons JP, unexpected but I like it!
flavors are roasted, a bit of the anise from the aroma but much more subtle and a bit of caramel sweetness but overall it is quite dry with a slightly sour tinge.

I really quite like it, well crafted. As I now see mentioned, you may want to look at your water chemistry, but the end result is not far off I think.

[MrC]

I've been thinking a bout brewing my first Stout lately so I was really looking forward to this beer.

Poured black with a full tan head. Aroma of roasty, chocolate and a herbal, greenyness. The roasty chocolate aroma is inviting but the herbal, greenyness is not. For me the taste is dominated by Pacific Gem which is a hop that I dislike and I struggled to see beyond it :( Mouthfeel was nice, carbonation seemed about right. Some definate nice roasty character up front with a slightly sour & dry finish. I was expected more body and a smooth, creaminess which I didn't get. Maybe my expectation was off on this one.

I think overall it was pretty well brewed but for me Pacific Gem stole the show and let it down. I'm pretty biased when it comes to Pacific Gem 'coz I over did it on a couple of beers and now I can't stand it. You may want to ignore my feedback on this beer.

What would I change? I thought about this quite hard due to me wanting to brew one, and this is what I was thinking:
Use a different bittering hop, one that is fairly neutral at 60min. Sauvin maybe?
Add some lighter crystal (40-60L) 150g
More chocolate, increase to around 350g
Double the rolled oats.

I know this sounds negative but I did enjoy the beer and drank every last drop. It has helped me with my planning for my own stout.

Cheers.

[Stu McKinlay]

Enjoyed this beer with my friend Jed after brewing on Friday.

Dry, roasty, bitter just as it should be - more character than the beer most drunk on St Patrick's Day - and nicely balanced. Lacks just a little malt weight through the middle and there is an estery hint of floral fruit that makes me wonder if there is another yeast in there that wasn't meant to be there.
Good drop. Would love to try this on handpump, or on a nitro tap.
Definitely a comeback fellas.

Stout. It's a a beauty and a beast kind of a beer, isn't it? I love it.


Think this is my pic for the labels.



ps. I've not read other comments on any beers - the rosemary/minty thing mentioned above (and possibly the anise) is probably similar the floral/fruit ester i got. I didn't get it on the nose but i definitely got it as an aromatic on the palate. Jed picked it too.

[Alasdair]

A lot less roasty on the nose than I was expecting - I got big whiff of tip-top chocolate ice cream. A bit of roast tang in there too.

Nice roast and chocolate flavours. Pretty good mouthfeel too. Maybe could do with a bit more body.I get the minty flavour that some of the guys picked up. The burps taste like mint-choc chip ice cream, so maybe its a hop thing?

Anyway, a good effort. A couple of tweaks in grain bill and hop selection and you'll have a great example of the style.

[HerrSchnapps]

Never had the minty-flavour before in any of these beers, strange... Maybe it's the 1084? Normally use S-05... hmm.

[Barry]

I got mint. On the nose and in the taste. In fact quite prominent in the taste. I went against all intuition and checked this thread before fully formulating my reply and when I saw mint mentioned by someone else I knew I wasn't crazy.
I've only ever taste 2 beers that had a mint edge, and the other one was one of Revileds at Martin's birthday drinks last Saturday - which is why I was questioning this tonight - how are those odds?

Beer is a lovely slick black with a good tight tan head. Holding up to the light reveals ruby highlights - a lovely looking beer.
Roasty coffee with that hint of mint on the nose.
Beer tastes more like a dry stout to me - not silky smooth and chewy like I expected in an oatmeal stout. But it's good! Pretty good roasty malt profile, definitely on the crisp dry side. That mint thang is a clear as day to me, to be honest it detracts a bit.

But overall a good solid effort. Cheers boys.