Sour Beer

[sockmerchant]

I have been on a huge sour beer kick as of late. Especially flanders red and oud bruin. Lambic's can be a bit more hit and miss for me.

A few questions

Are any (commercial) brewers in NZ venturing into there territories as yet? It would be awesome to see an NZ take on the these beers. They are a giant pain in the bum to brews though, so i wouldnt be surprised if no one has.

Does anyone on here do these? I have started a couple recently, but clearly it will take some time before i know if i did a good job. Would be awesome to do some bottle swaps in the future. 

Assuming someone has brewed some flanders style sours, have you used WLP665 Flemish Ale Blend? Impressions? How does it compare to wyeast Roesalari blend?

Cheers 

[Hillman]

I feel awful for you. ;-)

In other news the outdoor water ban in the Wellington region means no brewing for me this weekend. 

[Greig McGill]

Had two very fresh bottles this weekend. It's definitely a lot more of a bret-bomb (in the nicest way possible) than I recall. I still don't consider it sour though. More like a more intense Orval - dry, tart, spicy, and citrussy. For me, "sour" is not something I get from Bret. Well, not on it's own anyway.

Anyway, delicious beer!

[Hillman]

I just got around to blending the new saison with the one gallon that's been fermenting with brett since November. I had a taste of the one that's been bretting and damn it tasted really good. Beautifully sour and wonderful barnyard notes. Unmistakable brettanomyces activity. I can't wait to bottle it in another five months.

[sockmerchant]

I will be brewing a flanders red this weekend if everything goes to plan. I picked up a pack of wyeast roesalare. Seeing as no one seems to be able to tell me the difference between it and the whitelab flemish blend, I thought I'd see for myself.

Will be based on the brewing classic styles recipe. I will be pitching the bugs straight away though, no clean ferment first nonsense. From what i have read, his recipe is not nearly as sour (doing a clean ferment first) as i prefer. More rodenback than rodenbach grand cru. I much prefer the grand cru 

I have some oak cubes sitting in red wine which will be heading into it. 

[Jonathan Matthews]

Did exactly what you are about to do, about 18 months ago.
No clean primary yeast, straight to Roesalare blend, oak chips used.
Fermented for 12 months in glass carboy with standard airlock.
Sadly wasn't very sour at all, suspect the problem was not enough exposure to oxygen over the 12 months.
If i did it again i'd try and replicate what alot of American brewers do and use a wooden dowel of somekind (oak seems to be the way to go) which is used instead of an airlock and lets a small amount of air in during the fermentation.
Or else ferment for first 6 months in a bucket (oxygen permeable) then last 6 odd months in a carboy with airlock.

[sockmerchant]

Yeah I will be using a bucket. Thats what mr Jamil recommended so...I'll run with that. I'll sample it each month just to make sure its heading where its supposed to.

[Dougal]

I found this interview quite interesting. In it there's mention of deliberately not sampling too regularly to avoid too much acetic sourness. http://embracethefunk.com/2012/06/26/lauren-salazar-of-new-belgium-qa/

If you like Rodenbach, then maybe more vinegary is to your taste though? My two sours in glass didn't get sampled until they were about 10 months old, and the sourness is definitely more lactic, but quite pronounced. I think the recent addition of a lambic dregs culture is going to take it where I want it- drier, slightly tarter and more Bretty.

[sockmerchant]

Yeah read that a wee while ago. Unfortunately the feedback loop with these beers is so damn long! You cant rapidly learn new lessons and change your methodologies.

I love Rodenbach. It has a decent amount of acidity, but I wouldn't really call it vinegary. I think Duchesse is a bit more balsalmic vinegary... though just slightly.

Both are decently tart, with a bit of acidity, but comes accross more as sweetness. A great balance of the sweet and sour the style is known for. And both have a considerable amount of cherry pie taste and aroma, presumable from Brett Lambicus.

I brewed the flanders yesterday. Hit all my numbers, and it came out really freakin red. Very nice. I bet it will darken quite a lot, but should be nice. I didnt use any additional yeast, just pitched the Rosealare. Pitched at about 6 or 7 last night. Was cracking this morning. Plenty of airlock activity, krausen etc.

 

[sockmerchant]

Took a hydro sample from the oud bruin tonight. I reckon it would be enlightening to see/taste it as it progresses. Will probably do that every month or so. 

At just under a month it is down to 1.012. This one was fermented with US-05 first, then racked when it slowed down and pitching the whitelabs blend. OG was 1.062.

Its still a baby sour, but already tastes way different from anything i have made. Has a lot of dark fruit funkiness already and a smidgen of sourness. 

Looks promising anyway

Also sampled my rye saison with brett. Pretty good. Decently funky already. Still too high at 1.008 and a bit too sweet/full. I reckon it'll drop another few points though. Can easily finish around 1.004.

[Scarrfie]

Have you thought about trying Kefir grains to ferment and sour your beer? I tried it almost two years ago when I started grain brewing and definitely got funk. However it wasn't as sour as I had hoped. But then it does say that for yoghurt the longer you leave it the more sour it will go so perhaps I didn't leave it long enough. Only thing I worry about is whether the souring bacteria are different to those doing the fermenting. If that was the case then perhaps Kefir grains could be added once primary is almost finished.

[sockmerchant]

No i havent thought about it, but it might work. 

I am planning on doing a quick souring process in the near future, but that will be using normal malt. Malt is covered in lacto. I will then be fermenting it with brett lambicus, which might take half a year. 

I doubt you'd have much luck souring it post fermentation. Lacto doesnt like it.

[sockmerchant]

Currently sipping Mike's strawberry sour. A very nice beer.