Mash hopping vs First Wort hopping

[Reviled]

Have you done either of the above? Im keen to know what sort of flavour, aroma and bitterness aspects you can expect from both mash and fw hopping..

Shane Morley was saying that he FWH sometimes and it gives an oxidised hop flavour and a bit of aroma also - so would this be counted as a 90 min addition for bitterness?

And whats the difference with mash hopping? Does this give you bitterness as well? Or just flavour/aroma?

let me know your experiences ;o) I did my first mash hop in the weekend but only with a small amount so will have to wait a little bit before I find out what I acheived..

[Mike Neilson]

Mash hopping is for the Brew God and First Wort Hopping is for his Mrs!! Mash hopping gives a real real mellow bitterness and I have only tried First wort hopping once and it just to me felt like a first addition so I dont do it anymore!

[Reviled]

So would you count mash hopping as a full 90 min addition? Or alot less seeing as the hops dont make it into the boil?

I brewed my Motueka ale in the weekend and thought since I was only using one hop would add a bit of dimension to it by mash hopping 10gms, but now im not sure what sort of bitterness to expect...

[Mike Neilson]

About 2 ibus with that mash hop.

[Shane Morley]

Its more to do with the higher pH giving a better utilisation. I reckon it works better with nobel hops depending on there alpha/beta ratio. There are also other factors ie oxygen. It doesnt give an oxidised hop profile, more of a mellow profile.

[Reviled]

Bump ;o)

Anyone else mash or FW hopped?

[JoKing]

I've done both heaps of times.

[Reviled]

Care to elaborate my friend? :oP What did you get from either practices? Aroma? Bitterness? Flavour?

[JoKing]

I have done a reasonable amount of research on the topic, and from what I gather - they pretty much do the same thing. It allows the more volatile flavour compounds in the hop oils to oxidise, and fully disolve into the wort before the boil - especially Noble hops... well... not fully - but more than what would happen in the boil.

Practically, when I FWH - there is less utilisation in terms of bitterness, as the Alpha (and Beta) Acids oxidise and do not isomerise during the boil. Hence the perception of a "smoother bitterness": there are actually less IBUs in the beer as a result.

Mash hopping is similar - only if you recirculate the mash. More disolved oils into the wort that have oxidised, and dont isomerise. I think the utilisation is not as effective as say a hop back - or a 15min addition... especially with less noble hops. But if you have hops to burn, it's worth considering.

The most I've used in the mash is 50 grams, and probably similar to FWH. Whenever I FWH, I still add a 60min addition... I think it is difficult to calculate the efficiency from a sole FWH.

I mostly do it with US and NZ hops - and there is definately a different flavour component in the beer - more in terms of added hop complexity - I wouldn't rely soley on this for the one and only addition of hops. I have done it in Pilsners before with Tettnang, Liberty, Hallertau and Pearle - and can say that these beers were not as bitter as I had calculated.

Food for thought.

[Reviled]

Cheers for the info mate, im thinking when I get this kilo of Amarillo in doing a single hop brew with both mash and FWH addition, plus every other kind of addition ;o) Should be interesting and give some nice hop complexity...

So I can basically expect nothing from the 10g mash hop addition I did on saturday - oh well :o)

[JoKing]

Maybe a bit of flavour - but bugger all. You really would have noticed more (with that amount) if you dry hopped it.

Any news from Doug yet?

[Reviled]

Yeah im prolly gonna dry hop it too..

Email on late friday saying hed get a price to me today - still waiting patiently :o)

[JoKing]

What about now?