Help me with my hopping ( Please !!)

[Ged]

Guys..Just sampled a couple of the latest American additions to beerstore with Rusty CChurch..

Opened up the Firestone 'Union Jack' Walker and really enjoyed it. We both thought it was very like Epic but a bit more body ?? My nose and paletter are frankly shite so I'm doing everything I can to improve them..but I really thought this was another Epic...Does that concur with other tastings?

My question is how the heck do they get that ongoing aroma hit and 'hop' taste in every sip ? I have tried dry hopping, late additions, flame out additions etc etc etc...but nothing comes close to the Epic or indeed Firestone delivery. Is it a timing issue or a volume of hop issue or indeed something else....Any clues or pointers much appreciated as I want to do a beer just like this next....

On another note I felt the Anchor Steam Beer ( maybe served a little too warm ) was a close second to a can of tennents lager...Really disappointed...Expected a lot more but all I got was the smell and taste of the tenth pint of the night in a dingy club when you are thinking of making a sneaky exit...

Thanks for the tips..No doubt there will be a few.. Pliny the Elder and blind pig at the weekend :)

Ta

Ged

[jt]

As an advanced thought (one that I've not played around with myself), that is hardly ever mentioned anywhere, is that a slightly warmer ferment can actually accentuate the hop character

The New Dad frequently advocates this.

But with temperatures plummeting, I thought that there's be more talk of lagers ?

[Stu McKinlay]

I brewed a lager, twice actually. A Bohemian Pils and then a Baltic Porter. didn't like all the waiting around.

[Reviled]

It is hard to wait for so long - especially for something like a Bo Pils IMO...

But for those real character lagers I reckon it can be worth it - like a Munich Dunkel ;o) I swear that was my best beer!

[James P]

Lagers and pils are the sign of patience.... and to be honest if I had start making ales only, I would probably never have tried lagering etc. Now I can brew a lager while making several ales.... best of both worlds!

[NVIOUS]

You don't actually have to wait for largers if you do it the sly way.
Use US-05 at 14 to 16 degrees and your normal larger malt. Really smooth and conditions in the same time as an ale would.

To back this up; in the last WBC comp it was a pilsner comp and I won with my Pilz NAAA.
Was made from 100% ale malt and US-05 at 15.
Everyone was shocked to hear!

But you see it's all about perception.

[Reviled]

I tried that Pils and it was really good! Allthough in saying that, it lacked a certain 'crispness' that a lager yeast gives! I also reckon youd be pushed to get a sulphur like ferment with S-05..

[NVIOUS]

Have to agree. Wasn't as crisp as it could've been. But close tho! Really hard to get the sulphur I would say.

[Reviled]

Pretty good for a 2 week lager jobbie tho eh? Specially seeing as you picked up 1st place :o)

[Ged]

Lucky enough to have a fridge, tempmate and heatmats...:)

[JoKing]

Getting back to the topic at hand, and to answer a few more of your questions Ged, there are many ways to get your hop flavour the way you want it in your brew. There have been a few really good points made here by Mike and Stu, so I'll tell you how I get hop flavour into my beers, using the recipe I posted for you.

Keep in mind that that recipe will be more hoppy than Epic and FWUJ for the first couple of months, as it will be fresher into your keg. The hop characters will eventually subside after a month or 2 and the beer will be more like the comercial examples.

OK... So, a 90 min boil for me means that I'll boil for half an hour before I add the 1st addition of hops. I believe this goes a long way in defining the flavour components in the beer. The malt isn't muddy, and the bitterness is crisp and noticable. Don't ask me why... maybe it is a chemical reaction after the hot break occurs.

15mins means that with 15 mins to go in the boil, I put the pellets straight in the brew... no hop bag. I also start the whirlpool at this point - you can do this at home either with your stiring spoon, or gently with a paint stirer. The chiller goes in at this point.

1 mins means the whirlpool is still going and the pellets go straight in the brew with 1 minute remaining.

At flameout, the whirlpool is still going, and I turn the chiller on straight away. I think your chiller is cooling fast enough to "trap" the more volatile hop oils.

After 15mins of chilling, I turn the whirlpool off. At your brewery, this would mean standing over the kettle for the full 30mins of whirlpooling. Then I keep chilling for another hour or 2 just to let everything settle to the bottom. My argument for this method is that the hops are infusing into cooling wort by the increased contact time after the boil: Think about it this way - when you make a cup of tea, does the infusion ocur faster if you have the bag sitting in the bottom of your cup, or if you dunk it up and down... the same principle applies.

So ferment as usual. The school of thought about the warmer ferment is that fermentation will occur in a shorter period of time, thus less CO2 scrubbing affects the beer. The counter argument to that is the Same amount of CO2 escapes the fermentation regardless of the time taken to ferment. I'd disagree - because there is less time exposure to scrubbing, and a day or 2 less during the ferment should make a huge difference.

I ferment these beers at 18 degrees, and pitch a bit more yeast than necessary. This gives me clean beers, with pronounced hop character, but just enough malt to carry it. It also means that the fermentation occurs quicker, and more gently than if I underpitched and fermented warm (or cool).

After fermentation has happened, and the Krausen had dropped, I apply the dry hops for the specified time. 5 - 10 days is optimal. This is done at room temp, and in the primary fermenter. After the specified time, I cool the brew down to 3 degrees for a couple of days to drop the hops out (CO2 coming up keeps a lot of matter suspended) then I keg, Carb, Condition and Consume.

You can consume straight away, as the dry hop at ambient doubles as a rest phase because the primary yeast cake is still in contact with the brew. There have been studies that suggest that fining, and transfering to 2ndary, then dry hopping increases hop contact with wort. My counter to that argument is "just use more hops".

Give it a try - use whatever hops you feel like. To me it's about doing what you are comfortable with and making a good beer as a result. My methods have taken me a few years to develop, but the results (lately) have been well worth it. Trust me when I say that there were a few duds along the way!

Cheers.