Help -Yeast Starter Problem

[studio1]

Have a conundrum - Am just about to start boiling a 42L batch of 'ordinary' bitter OG 1.40

I had a 6 month old pack of 1968 I smacked over a week ago. Built up the first step at 1l. The bright decanted beer tasted normal. Step 2 - add 2L - fully fermented and has been in the fridge for about 3 days. Just tasted the spent beer (a bit cloudy) and it is very 'Belgian' tasting. The second starter kicked off well and there was a good amount of growth in both starters. Fermented at room temps.

Anyone else had this with 1968? Should I flag it and use s-05 warm (all i have to hand)? Since I'm using 2 fermeters - 1968 in one and 05 in the other?

My only other option - does anyone here have an english ale at high krausen in Akl at the moment I could pinch some yeast from tomorrow?

[JoKing]

Dont flag it - it'll be a combination of massive overpitch and warm ferment temp in you second step of the starter. Starters are never an indication of how the beer will turn out.

I pitched a massively suphury starter once and it turned out some damned awesome beer.

It's always your call, but I cant see it turning bad. I like the idea of pitching the 1968 into one fermenter and US-05 into the other. I'd do that... if the 1969 does go bad - at least you'll have beer. If it doesn't go bad - you'll have heaps of beer... and different beer too.

[MrC]

Yeast starters always worry me with their weird & funky aromas. Belgian tasting sounds OK to me, it's the whiteboard maker smell that gets me worried cos it's always there to stay.

I'd go with the split ferment idea with 1968 and US-05, sounds like more fun anyway. I love split batches.

[warra48]

I'm at the third stage of buiding up a starter of WY1968 to 2½ litres, for a Mild to be put down on Friday..
You need to remember most starter worts will be oxidised to a degree far beyond your normal brew, and because of the fast and warmer than normal fermentation, you will likely get some funky characters. So long as you don't have any nasty "off" flavours as such, you'll be fine to go.

[studio1]

Well, I've taken a hydro and the beer is down to 1.009 (more than I was expecting from 1968 and the yeast hasn't dropped yet). Unfortunately its a drain pour though - both fermenters as I didn't hedge my bets (I Really wanted lots of 'English' bitter to run through my new beer engine - plus I have another 40L just going into kegs with US05). I don't know how to describe this flavour - JokIng you may recall I gave you a 'bad' beer to try in the Galbraiths carpark once - this is the same flavour. The yeast has totally shat itself somehow - or somehow an infection got in during the 2nd step of the starter (as the first tasted primo). Difficult to work this one out.......

[JoKing]

Well - I reckon that sucks balls bro. Have you tipped it all out already? You never know... it might come right.

[studio1]

nah, just took it out of the chest freezer though. I have one in a glass carboy - maybe I'll leave that one in there for a while - do you remember trying that one of mine that you spat out (lol)? its Exactly the same flavour. After re-reading this thread I am thinking 'whiteboard marker' ala Mr Cherry

[JoKing]

Yeah - I remember that beer. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings that night. I hope we can still be friends!!! Nothing worse than having someone spit out your beer.

That 1968 yeast is quite sensitive. I'm picking it mutated pretty early in the piece and started mothering weak cells. That last brew of yours wasn't infected at all - it was just full of glycogen.

[studio1]

of course you didn't hurt my feelings haha - I bought it to you to ask what was wrong with it :-)

So is it possible to get rid of glycogen or should I just move on....I'm not too bothered - you live and learn.

[JoKing]

Yeah - I don't really know the answer to that one. The yeast will use it's stores of glycogen during "hibernation", so theoretically after fermentation has completed, other yeast might have a bit of a munch on what has been left over in the brew.

There is still a ways to go with this beer if it is still cloudy - normally 1968 clears up before attenuation has completed. So of it is still cloudy with yeast, they're having a go at something.

I think you'll find that as the beer clears, that off flavour will dissipate. The reason being that glycogen is actually a starch - which is insoluble in water. What you are actually tasting in the beer is the mutated (and probably exploded) yeast cells. The flavour of these cells are very strong and overpower the flavour of the beer itself.

You'll never get rid of the phenolic flavour that the stressed yeast pumped into your beer during cell growth - but in a lot of cases, these flavours aren't too unpleasant - and a lot of the time, it;s the signature flavour of that particular strain.

I reckon you should give it time to floc. If it hasn't flocced by this time next week, nuke it with some gelatine and have a taste when the beer is crystal clear.

[studio1]

ok sweet. Cheers for the advice. I have taken it out of the freezer to make room, and it will sit at room temps until it drops out.

[MrC]

Bummer dude. How would you describe the flavour? Do any of the off flavours on those beer flavour wheels leap out at you?

[studio1]

somehwere between phenolic and musty? thats an interesting link - I'll try some later when I haven't just finished a coffee and try to pinpoint it.