Mash volume and boil volume

[Simon David kelly]

Hi All,

Just working out the mash for my brew in beer smith and I have a question.

I have chosen a temperature mash (side question: is this correct for a bitter?) and the application calls for 10ltrs for 60 mins at 67.8 with a temp raise to 75 over 10 minutes.

My question is, where does the other 13.5 litres come from to make the boil volume? I chose a non-sparge mash so don't know the way to top up the boil volume. What would be the best way to do it?

Cheers

Si

[JoKing]

I'd just Sparge regardless of what Promash says... otherwise you'll have to top up with water before the boil.

That temp looks good depending on what yeast you are using.

[denimglen]

I wouldn't bother with a step mash. In 99.9% of cases a single infusion mash is fine. The English are the masters of the single infusion so it's correct for the malt and style.

If you're not sparging there's two ways you can do it. Run off your mash and top up in the boil kettle - I wouldn't recommend this as I doubt you'd hit even 50% efficiency. The typical 'no sparge' mash is done by mashing your grains and then topping up with your 13.5L (or as much as your mash tun can handle) before running off. You can expect about 50 - 55% eff with this method.

What is your equipment set up?

[Simon David kelly]

When it's complete, the tun will be a converted 50lt keg. I'm currently sourcing materials for the false bottom athough I may use a braided tube if I can't find a decent bottom plate by Feb.

I was doing BIAB prior with a full water mash before and only just getting 55-60%. I missed my target on all 4 attempts.

Si

[denimglen]

Any reason to not sparge?

I would at least use the 'no sparge' method to save yourself a few bucks worth of grain.

[Simon David kelly]

I have no sparge arm worked out yet.

I was considering letting the tun run "dry" with the first runnings and then adding back in about 18lts at 68 degrees , giving it a stir run it around till it runs clear and then take off enough to get the kette to the required boil start volume.

Would this be ok, and what's it called?

Si

[Alasdair]

it's fine, and it's called batch sparging.

IIRC, the theory is that if you do two sets of runnings, they should be equal in volume. So, for example, my boil volume is 27L, so my second water additon is 13.5L, and my mash water + mash our water = 13.5L + grain absorbtion and mash-tun dead space.

[Arron]

How important is it for both run offs to be the same volume?

I mashed out for the 1st time today, and just added boiling water until I achieved my mash out temp (76 c according to my mashmaster thermometer). To get that temp gave me 21litre 1st runnings, and 8 litre 2nd runnings (29 litre boil with 5.5 litre/hour boil off)

I mashed and held 67 degrees, but if only added enough mashout water to make 14.5litre then would not have gotten anywhere near 76 degrees.
Any idea of any problems with the big difference in runoff volumes?

[Alasdair]

No problem beyond lower efficiency I would think, but that's not an issue unless your efficiency is really low. Consistency of process is more important so you can predict your OG and volume etc each time.

There's lots of stuff on the web on batch sparging. How to Brew, Denny Conn's website, and the brewing network podcasts are all good starting points.

[Arron]

Efficiency was about the same as my usual process. Was given a recipe for an apa that included a mashout step, so without actually researching the best or proper way to do it decided to add boiling water.
I was real surprised with the volume of water it took to raise the mash temp that high.
Your right about consistency, only bothered to mashout because I wanted to see if it made any difference to eff which it didnt so wont be bothering again I think

[denimglen]

braukaiser.com is also really good, one of the most indepth look at efficiency that I've seen.

Low efficiency is the only problem IIRC, but I believe going for equal volumes gives a better quality wort (compared to a thick mash and huge sparge) for lower gravity worts because you're not diluting so much during the sparge.

I don't bother mashing out anymore as I don't see the point.

[Arron]

I will check that link out.

cheers

[denimglen]

That's called a batch sparge and is perfectly fine. You may find this is better for you than fly sparging.

It would be better to calculate how much water you need and add that amount only - it will give you slightly better efficiency if you're not leaving wort behind in the tun.

Beersmith will tell you how much to sparge with - if you've entered the boil volume you want and your mash schedule when you hit the 'preview brewsheet' in the toolbar about halfway down it will say 'sparge with x.xx L'.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Ooops great minds think alike eh Alasdair ;-)