Cloudy Vinegar

[Richard Walley]

Well, the results of brew number one are in (more or less). The recipe I used is on the 'what are you brewing?' thread.

Have yet to bottle, but a pre-bottling taste indicates that I have produced 22 litres of cloudy vinegar. Well, actually, that's possibly unfair. The cloudiness I was expecting, having very little idea exactly what I was supposed to do with that little packet of Irish Moss (it's still sitting on my spice rack). And the vinegar aspect isn't exactly offensive - it's slightly reminiscent of some flavours I remember from UK keg conditioned bitters, although not having tasted them for 18 months or so, I can't really remember if they tasted quite as vinegary as this brew.

So, does it sound like I made a common error here? Or have I just used peculiar hops? Or was it the sugar? I'm keen to know what I might alter with the next brew that would change it.

A couple of things did strike me - I opened the keg a couple of times to see what the yeast was doing - might I have introduced an infection? I might also have left it a little long to brew. The air lock is now going about every 5 minutes or so, which I figured made it about bottling time, but maybe I should have bottled a bit earlier?

Anyhow, great to know what everybody thinks.

Cheers!

[denimglen]

Possibly an aceto bacteria infection.

Seems pretty easy to get infections this time of year, my last two batches had a nice layer of mold :-(

[Horace]

Allowing oxygen to get to the beer after fermentation has begun often helps acetobacter to grow. Try to avoid this if possible - ie only expose beer to air when absolutely necessary. All you need now is to add a little Brettanomyces yeast for a bit of sourness and you might have yourself a flanders style beer :)

What process/ ingredients did you use before adding the yeast.

[Richard Walley]

15.k amber malt & 1k raw sugar boiled for 1 hour, styrian golding hops - 75% at start of boil, 25% for final 10 minutes, plus some cascade in a funny teabag thing. I chucked the boiled up stuff into a (very carefully sterilised) keg, then topped up with tap water to cool to pitching temperature.

Sorry, I know that tap water thing was probably a bad idea, but I have literally no clue how one goes about sterilising 19 litres of water with only a three litre pan and an electric kettle to hand. I figured that by the time I'd boiled batch six, batch one would probably have got infected with stuff again.

Fortunately, since then, I have invested in a 22l boiling pot, so fingers crossed I won't have the problem again. Like I said, though, I'm still nto totally sure it's not just what the beer tastes like. I have had a number of vaguely vinegary session ales in the past. Is there an easy home test for acetobacter?

I did consider the lambic approach as well, but I'm not sure what Wellington's wild yeast cultures are like ;-). Actually, has anybody ever tried this?

[Horace]

> Is there an easy home test for acetobacter?

Not that I know - not unless you have a micro lab at home. I think taste is possibly the best . It is more than likely that a lot of beer has it in minute amounts.

Large amounts of table sugar can produce a cidery flavour - could this be what your tasting.

Pretty much if it tastes like vinegar it is probably infected - what did you "sterilise" your keg with?

[Richard Walley]

It was raw organic cane sugar, so I don't think it's that 'cidery' thing.

And Ha! I scoff at your inverted commas around the word "sterilise" - I used bleach, then Brewcraft Brewclean, then bleach. Again.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that it was all my mucking about trying to get the airlock to work, then taking the lid off to see what the yeast was up to, etc etc. Lesson learnt there, I think. But I'm still holding out for somebody to write in and say 'nah, it's supposed to taste like that'.

[denimglen]

I think the point Horace was trying to make is that it is near on impossible for us to sterilise our homebrewing equipment at home. Sterlise means to eliminate all forms of life, sanitise means almost everything, which is what we do as homebrewers - which is good enough.

[Richard Walley]

Yeah, sorry, just got a bit carried away there. I'm pretty sure I got close to eliminating all forms of life, though. ;-)

[denimglen]

I'd put it down to the taking the lid off to have a geeze. Seems to be a lot of nasties in the air this time of year.

Vinegar/sour (unless intended) is usually a sign of infection.

Unfortunately I don't think any of us will be able to say that it's supposed to taste like that without acutally tasting it. Maybe there's someone in your area who could have a taste and see? Seems to be a lot of keen HBers down in Wellington.

But hey, if it tastes alright to you, bottle it and drink it. From what I've read no human pathogens can survive in beer.

[Dan]

I had a nice bitter racked to secondary 2 weeks before going on holiday, couldnt be bothered bottling !
Before leaving, it tasted fine mid december, by mid january it did have a decidedly vinegerish taste, Its definitely an infection, probably acetobacter, I dont use sugar so it aint that, from memory I did get a little splashing when racking which would have introduced a bit of o2 to the mix, that coupled with 6 weeks sitting at over 20oC would have been a nice place for acetobacter to do its bizzo!
Its the only beer I have, so I grin (grimace) and bear it, it aint so bad after the first glass!
Who am I kidding? its bloody awful!