Different takes on the NZ IPA

[Cain Harland]

I noticed the other day that pretty much every NZ IPA - ones with NZ hops not yank hops made in NZ - I know of has more or less the same hop flavor very citrusy (usually from motueka or rewaka) with a good portion of Nelson Sav. And the good ones at least IMO have about the same malt taste, lots of caramel/toffee. Digital IPA (my favorite and probably the beer that set the trend ) and Black Dogs kiwi unleashed fit this description pretty well, Hop wired less malty, Chur less malty again but still all very similar on the hops and there's a bunch of others that are similar.

Don't get me wrong I really like some of these beers but I'm thinking there has to be more than 1 way to skin that cat.

So I'm interested in

1. any suggestions for recommended drinking
2. or any great home brew recipies

for beers that NZ IPAs that differ from that formula

[Crusader-Rob]

When you put dominant hops, such as Nelson and Riwaka. as a separate note, if your keen on brewing a NZIPA, you could try using different hops, such as the lesser known ones. Wai-iti, waimea, pacifica etc.

[FatD]

Don't use waimea :o maybe kohatu, wai iti, pacifica

[Crusader-Rob]

Not a fan dermot?

[FatD]

nah, it's pretty englishy eh.. or bittering hop. not a fan of rakau either..

[Crusader-Rob]

Fair enough. Rakau I under stadn..... sweaty pineapple pants I saw on here once. haha.
But I get a real sweaty armpit thing from it.

[Druid]

Try N/S and NZ Cascade at 1:3 ratio - it's a classic combo, all NZ (if you ignore the heritage of the Cascade's ancestors) and you'll recognise it from Little Creatures and a few others (Pan Head?) - so a fairly different taste from the classic NZ citrus hop character.

And although it's not everyone's cup of tea, a hop bill of 100% NS can be bloody good in a bigger beer if you balance a good portion of the flavouring additions away from the latter part of the boil, a la Liberty Sauvignon Bomb, so it's less of a tropical fruit character.

[Cain Harland]

N/S and cascade like a Hop Rocker? Or is that US cascade? and is there much difference between NZ and US cascade? I have seen some negative comments about the NZ Cascade, "too peppery" was one.

The thing that got me thinking about this was I brewed an IPA with Waimea, NS, and Galaxy. The malt profile was based on Digital IPA but knocked back the Crystal and Munich to about 1/2 and subbed about 1/3 of the ale malt for pils. I now think this would have been a good malt base with certain US hops but this one would have been better for the extra Crystal and Munich. Its actually quite good and drinkable, I wrote an earlier post about the hops tasting dank on early (too early) tastes but that aged out. Now the hop flavor is almost all citrus which is something I was trying to get away from a bit by not using motueka or rewaka.

[Richard Jack]

Yeah if you didn't want citrus, waimea and galaxy would not be my recommendation (they are both known for their really intense citrus).  You could look at the hallertau varieties? Pacifica and whakatu? they're more floral than citrus I rekcon. Rakau gets a lot of flak but it's more tropical than citrus according to NZ hops. You could stick to NS for bittering, or try southern cross if you want to go more piney. YMMV

[Cain Harland]

I hadn't brewed with either before. I guess I expected more pine from the waimea and more passionfruit  from the galaxy. On the type of citrus NZ hops recon tangelo from waimea I recon lemon/lime. Although from memory Waimea Hop Cat had alot of tangelo. Hop Cat is a lot maltier than my brew so maybe the malt context has a big influence on what you get out of a hop, whether that citrus comes through as orange/tangelo or lemon/lime and whether the citrus over powers other flavors like galaxys passionfruit and various other fruitiness I expected and didn't get, which brings me back to my earlier comment about the NZ IPA I like most having a good dose of caramel/toffee to their malt flavour, quite a contrast to the US IPAs and APAs Ive been enjoying most being the stripped back west coast style.

[Cain Harland]

The more I drink of this beer the more I like the NS Waimea combo just needs a little more malt body. I don't recon the galaxy brought much to the party. I might re brew lose the galaxy (maybe replace with something floaral or piney but maybe not), increase the dry hop, lose the pilsiner (just to shorten the boil), increase the Munich, add some glad fields toffee malt.

I should have mentioned it was bittered with warrior. I tend to bitter with either warrior or pacific jade. But thats only 30 of 480g hops, all the rest were late or dry.

[Crusader-Rob]

Nice, yeah maybe some Southern X at flameout would be a goer? just to add a touch of Pine? and run the rest with NS/Waimea?

[Mark Weusten]

Druid do you reckon the N/S and NZ Cascade at 1:3 ratio would work with a pilsner?