NZ Noble type hops

[Matt Smith]

Can anybody tell me which NZ hop varieties most closely resemble classic earthy/spicy/evergreen type noble hops like spalt, tettnang, saaz. I know we have our equivalents here like the Saaz types Motueka and Riwaka, and the Hallertau types Pacifica and Wakatu, however I'm yet to find one that is comparable, that doesn't carry too much of NZ's really tropical, stone-fruity character.

I'm working on a hoppy NZ blonde recipe, my first iteration with Sauvin, Mot, and Waimea turned out pretty good, however I sometimes find the hop character a little sweet and candy like. My plan is to add a really spicy/evergreen type noble hop into the ratio to balance that fruity sweetness, but I'd like to still be able to call it an all NZ hopped beer. At this stage I'm thinking Pacifica, however Ive barely used this hop so can't recall its character. Any thoughts?

I'm also really keen to work on a really classic, german style pils with NZ hops, so any advice there would be awesome. Until now I've pretty much only brewed with new world type hops. Keen to expand my horizons!

[Jamie McQuillan]

When I saw your question I immediately thought Pacifica before you mentioned it and I know what you mean about the sweetness of some NZ hops, as much as I like them. I used Pacifica in a Saison recently that I tweaked the recipe on and swapped out Styrian Goldings. It has higher Humulene (i.e Noble/aroma) and good levels of spicy caryophylene. I am really into spicy hops at the moment and it has worked out well so far. Pacifica is peppery in taste and aroma. 8 wired Rewired is a good example of a beer that uses it. So nice. Go for it.

[Matt Smith]

Ah yes I forgot about rewired, I'll grab a bottle, thanks for that.

What difference did the Pacifica make in your Saison? I'm working on a Saison with Motueka/NZ Styrian. I wonder if Pacifica/Styrian would be a better fit for a more classic example.

[Jamie McQuillan]

It's my first Saison, so I based it on a recipe I had in a book but needed to sub the hops and also wanted to push it a bit, but I have no comparison. I used Nth Brewer 90 mins, East Kent Goldings 30 mins, and then Pacifica for spice and Mosaic for citrus at 10 mins. Added a bunch of flavour and aromatic additions too. Maybe Pacifica and Styrian are too similar.

[jt]

Another vote for Pacifica
I bought it for the suggested orange marmalade contribution ... which I don't get.
More dry lemony citrus to me

[Tilt]

Pacifica for mine too Matt.  Lovely as a late accompaniment to just about anything  - but particularly Cascade for me. 

But then I've also wondered about Wakatu / Hallertau Aroma as an NZ noble.  I haven't tried it but am now thinking its worth a go in a faux lager to see what it brings.  I'm getting a bit tired of fruit and citrus so looking for some spice/herb.  I'll be interested in what you find out too.

[Dougal]

I get a really nice noble character from Wakatu as the base hop in pilsners. I often add much smaller amounts of Motueka or Riwaka to add a bit of complexity.

+1 for NZ Styrians too. Very spicy and great in Belgian styles. I did a 100% NZ Styrian Golding pilsner out of curiosity which was nice but not quite right. Blending in another hop like Pacifica could be the trick. 

[Peter Smith]

Dougal, how many ibu of bittering do you use when using Wakatu in a pils? I like the idea of late riwaka and mot as well, I tend to like the mot as a 20 or 15 min addition then decent riwaka at 10 and 5 min.

Will be 95% pils 5% carahell Only at 4%er for taking out fishing over Xmas

[Matt Smith]

Thanks all. Sounds like Pacifica will be the go for this. I have a couple Pilsners planned also, both 100% Gladfield pils, mashed low, around 35 IBU, the first with Pacifica/US Stirling and the second with Wakatu and Pacifica. Never really been a lager or pilsner drinker but I've been buying cheap cans of Bitburger from my local supermarket lately and loving em.

[Jamie McQuillan]

Sounds good. Have you tried Liberty Halo Pilsner? Love it and I am not always such a fan of Pilsners.

[Peter Smith]

Was one of the stand out beer first beers. Stunning

[Matt Smith]

Not yet but I'm hanging out to. I haven't been able to find it in Hawkes Bay yet.

[Mark Meyburg]

Hi Matt - did you have any success with the pils - I am looking for a good recipe - Cheers