Conical Fermentors

[Alex Daniel]

Does anybody know if there is someone who makes conical fermentors on the homebrewer scale in nz? or does anyone have expereince with ordering these from overseas? what sort of prices etc

[Paul Wicksteed - another1]

Aluminium can be attacked by alkalis, and are more susceptible to corrosion, if the corrosion is microscopic you will end up with fissures that can harbor infections, that can't easily be removed.

[Liam Callaghan]

Thanks Paul, I will discount ali then.  Unless they come in at less than $100 in which case they are a good disposable option, just take off your hardware and replace it.

Just looking at other viable options, the plastic ones look good just waiting on a price.  I'm hoping they come in low enough that anyone who is brewing can afford one.  Its a pretty simple plastic bucket at the end of the day, shouldn't be costing us $300-400...

A basic stainless unit that people can fit themselves looks to be a good option but the tooling cost is very expensive.  Not sure I am up for the $$$ risk of doing that.  I design roads for a living, not sure I want to mortgage the house to make affordable fermentors - or more importanlty my wife doesn't want me too :p

[Grant R Baker]

Probably wise.  Any metal can impact 'qualities' during fermentation and the soft metals are more likely.

At Beervana there were a couple of beers with a alloy tangy tatse... just moved to a alloy keg to son was my guess.

[Hutch]

There are definitly engineering solutions to the corrosion problem.

There's a couple of companies that offer plastic liners for chemical process tanks. Given that food grade plastic fermenters work fine, a polypropylene, polyethylene or epoxy liner might be a good solution.

There are also spray on glass option, but for a small tank that might be a bit pricey.

From a fabrication point of view Alu is definitely a better choice than CRES, mild steel might be an option too. 

[Liam Callaghan]

I didn't find a spray on glass company to check the pricing on it but if you have any contacts I will definitely give them a call.  Otherwise I have discounted aluminium.

Copper was good but too easy to damage in transit for distribution and retail.  Oxidisation could be an issue for the brewer as well so I think I am going to stick with plastic and stainless.

I just got back the first cut on prices on plasic and waiting on a really generous offer for stainless.

[Hutch]

Can't find anyone who does spray glass or ceramic in NZ, which probably puts it out of our price range. Here's a selection of suitable plastic tank lining sprays:

http://www.altexcoatings.co.nz/vdb/document/999

http://www.polymer.co.nz/files/category_files/TDS%20-%20Tankguard%2...

http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/AmeronCoatings/aus/PDF/A0056.PDF

They're all qualified for potable water and one of them is specifically qualified for wine. I'm not sure how economic this approach would be though.

[Liam Callaghan]

Awesome Hutch, I'll chase these next week.  Interesting options there!

[Liam Callaghan]

The plastic fermentors (35 litre and 70 litre capacity) are both rated at 5psi.  They are 6mm wall thickness and tough as old boots.  Smooth as silk finish, easy to clean and fit/strip for cleaning.  All NZ made and designed. 

Bearing in mind that I only looked at this because the cost of conical fermentors is crazy, amazing what you can do when you're annoyed.  This is not the best conical fermentor in the world, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles.  If you damage it, you can throw it out and buy another, just like any other plastic fermentor - saying that, you would have to park your ute on it to damage it or attack it with a power tool.  It should be cheap enough that you can buy 4 or 5 for the cost of a stainless unit in the current market.

A couple of questions if people have time to answer them it would be appreciated:-

1.   5psi pressure - how many of you would use this?  It adds quite a bit to the cost, if most people use gravity with a c02 cap the units will be cheaper and easier to make.  The pressure lid is about 75% the cost of the unit with additional costs to lock down on the body of the fermentor.

2.   If a stand was available would you buy it or prefer to make your own?  The stand is plastic and would be a similar price to the fermentor.  We are still looking at value engineering options for this.  Personally I would use multiple fermentors (I currently run 8 plastic) so would make a simple timber stand. 

3.   35 litre and 70 litre enough capacity for most brewers?

4.   1/4" port in the lid for c02 vent pipe.  1/2" port in the cone for main tap. 3/4" port in the base for yeast collection and trub vent.   Fit your own hardware to your budget with plastic or stainless.  This ok and sizes ok?

 

I might make another thread for this when I have the stainless option is done and the plastic one designed ready for manufacture.  If I go ahead with this I will probably look at manufacturing all the units required (HLT, Mash Tun, Grain Mill, Frames and mash stirrers).  Happy to look at anything else if you think its required, just mail me or post it. 

Nothing wrong with the stuff being imported, the quality of most of it is awesome and if I could afford it, I'd be buying it.  I'm just looking at cost effective local alternatives.

[Grant R Baker]

Very cool. been looking at the grain mill too and hate the import prices.  Sent you a message re the questions above.

[Smiffy]

35 litre is the only size I would be interested in.

As you know, the ability to withstand some pressure is important to me, but I would be prepared to make changes myself, e.g. the lid. Presumably that is the most susceptible to pressure being flat? If you made the cheaper option, could I reinforce the lid with a piece of wood, make the lid clamp as part of a stand, and then be able to apply 5 psi? And quite importantly, how much difference is it going to make to the final price ($ not %).

As for a stand, I think you said it could cost as much as the fermenter itself, but then that comes down to $ again. But if I was going to have to make a stand capable of clamping down the lid, then I wouldn't be a customer for a basic stand.

If you could give example prices, it would make it much easier to say.

[Reuben Rowntree]

1. I wouldn't if it affected the price greatly. I have a Blichmann and I'm quite happy that it can tolerate enough to transfer the beer using a CO2 bottle - but not enough to carbonate it. So I think if it can at least tolerate 2 PSI then that would be good. Any more than that doesn't seem worthwhile to me unless it can take the full 10-15PSI in order to carb the beer.

2. A stand would be nice if not too much more, but like Smiffy said depends on the actual dollar amount. I'd probably go for it.

3. I'd say those sizes are spot on. I'd personally go for a 70L over a 35L.

4. The port sizes sound spot on to me. I like the 3/4" bottom port.

Nice work

[Pilgrim]

I echo Reuben's thoughts. Not too worried about pressure unless I could carbonate with it, could make my own stand, 70L sounds perfect, like the 3/4" port.

I'd also be interested in a ballpark figure as soon as you work it out.

Cheers and keep up the good work.