A Beer Using Crowd Sourcing?

[nzbrewer]

So is this going to happen?

Can't see how it is going to work to get anything other than Speight's?

[Greig McGill]

I've just been reading the forum. When I heard about the idea, I was positive. Now, not so much. People are rating lion Red as a great beer ffs. There's barely a tenth of a clue between the entire contents of the forum, and the guy who started the project (and I'm sorry to sound rude, he seems like a very nice guy) thinks 1664 is a good beer.

I mean... where do you even begin?

I agree with you Luke, this is going to end up producing another fizzy yellow overly-sweet lager in a green bottle (they look sexy, donchaknow) designed by people who know nothing about beer, for people who know nothing about beer, and adding nothing at all to the market. I'm sure it will get great press though.

Pass my anti depressants.

I know in the spirit of being positive, I should try to make some kind of useful contribution, but the whole thing has me feeling very down.

God knows why I take this stuff so to heart, but I do. I guess I'm just so sick of mediocrity being celebrated.

[Greig McGill]

I decided to stop whining and post a suggestion, but it was nearly impossible to do without sounding like an arrogant wanker. :(

http://ourbrew.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2139858%3ATopic%3A436

Oh well, gotta try, right?

[Barry]

You do gotta try, you also have to get over the arrogance. Anyone who spent more than 5 minutes talking to you about beer would realise you're not.
The issue is, if I may state the obvious, 99% of beer drinkers don't know they have a choice. All they see, anytime they go for a beer - at wholesalers, pubs, clubs, restaurants - is mediocrity cleverly marketed as "premium". How would they know otherwise? Unless someone passionate and knowledgable (such as yourself) suggests an alternative?

I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope either, frankly I can't see why they would bother unless they were to use it as an educational vehicle for great beer - there's already enough dumbed down product on the shelves. But steering it in any particular direction is kind of counter to the whole concept eh.

[Danis]

In our defense at OurBrew it depends on who produces the beer.

For example; if Epic produced it, it would be up to them to produce nice tasting options to the style the crowd voted for. So if Epic produces a Speights tasting beer it is not all to be blamed on the crowd. Yes they vote on it, but if there is three good beers available it has to be one of those.

[Dai]

Danis, I have been following this thread with interest, but have trouble understanding the logic in your last reply. How could anyone but the 'crowd' be to blame if Epic produced a beer that was a Speight's knock-off- they asked for it. Also begs the question- if they want a Speight's tasting beer, why don't they go and buy a Speights?

[Tony]

Well put Dai. Danis and the your other mate, I am sorry, I joined our brew because I thought that the only way to make a change was to join in and have some input. Now it is up and running and I see waht is being written and communicated about, I feel much the same as Greig.

I beg your pardon, but I think you guys have your heads so far up your arses, you have absolutely no idea about what you a talking about. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I seriously believe you guys don't really know how it is going to work in reality. The previous post proves it.

If Epic (for example) produced a beer to their own standard, then it wouldn't be what is voted on by the masses, rather what Luke thinks it should be, not what others want. If you want to produce a beer that is drunk by the masses, don't bother, just do your market research and find out what is the highest selling beer in NZ! I would guess it is either: Lion red, speights, heineken. Problem solved!

In either case, count me out. The only way you are truely going to get a brew that is decided by the masses is to educate everyone on how to brew beer and then give them the option on which ingredients to use in which quantities! It aint gonna happen.

[Greig McGill]

It *could* happen though Tony. That's basically the tack I have taken. I've chosen to see it as an opportunity to get people educated about beer styles. Imagine if everyone coming in to the OurBrew project reads the forums, sees posts discussing styles of beer they've never heard of, and decides to go and investigate those options. Especially if it's made easy for them by people like us who know where to find good beer. I see this as another path to educating the consumer.

Publicity around OurBrew can only help good beer as long as we "beer nerds" choose to help rather than hinder, and educate rather than disparage.

I know it's disheartening to read the comments of some beer drinkers there, but remember, the market, such as it is, has made them what they are. What do you expect in a world that tells them Kronenbourg 1664 is good beer simply because it's from France (oh yes, a great beer nation that...) and served in swanky wanky bars? They might not have had that one eye (and taste-bud) opening experience yet which awakens them to great beer. Let's help them find it! :)

To summarise...

The only way you are truely going to get a brew that is decided by the masses is to educate everyone on how to brew beer and then give them the option on which ingredients to use in which quantities!

Agreed.

It aint gonna happen.

It might if we try. Worst case, we get disappointed.

It's the SOBA thing to do... ;)

[Dai]

I agree with your post, Greig, and after reading my last one, it does appear that I may have come across a bit negative. For the record, I think the OurBrew idea is a really interesting experiment and one that I am looking forward to seeing through to fruition; have even joined the group to be kept in the loop.

I can see that a 'beer for the masses' may be produced, and if this is the case, what is the huge issue? I am sure most of us will buy a dozen or so anyway, and then go back to what we prefer if we don't really like the OurBrew beer. On the other hand, if people do a bit of 'research' and start appreciating different beers, then we all win in the long term! After reading a few of the forums on the OurBrew site, breweries like Pink Elephant, Emersons, Epic, Tuatara etc are all being mentioned. I know if I was a beer enthusiast and had not heard of these brands, I would make an effort to search a few of them out to sample.

So I can not see how the OurBrew trial can do any harm at all.

One thing that I do not really understand about how the beer is eventually selected is how the style/type is decided upon. I mean, do we just say that we want a Speight's/ Epic/ Guinness/ whatever clone and the chosen brewery will copy the style? Or, do we say we want a particular style (e.g., ESB), within a particular IBU and SRM range? I realise that many people that do not homebrew might not even know what a BU is, but I can not see the point in having a poll which comes up with the result that 80% of respondents want the OurBrew beer to be similar to a commercial beer that is already available. Danis- may be you could shed a bit of light?

[Tony]

I agree it 'could' work. But reread the aim or 'what we are about'. Our brew is trying to entice as many people as possible to 'choose' or design a beer. Then they are going to get as many breweries or a few to brew to that style. I can see the marketing poeple at Lion and DB watching with interest. This has got to be the greatest 'independent' marketing research project they could have dreamed of.

I imagine there are a few of them who have shown interest (why wouldn't they). So 'we' are going to give them a 'style' or recipe? This raises several questions: Are they going to have to follow a recipe?
Are they simply going to be given a style and told 'brew me one like this?'?
What parameters are they going to have to follow?
How is it going to be judged?
How is it going to controlled?

It is so open ended. I am sorry if I sound so cynical, I am. Does anyone seriously believe, that given a recipe or style that any of the major breweries is going to come up with anything majourly different?

If they were going to, they would have done it by now. None of them have any interest in brewing an interesting beer, because they have too much at stake. Also their major partners (Heineken, Stellar, guiness, etc) wont let them. Remember Heineken made DB take Kiwi lager off the market before they would give them license to brew Heineken?

I agree Greig, it might work? Thats why I participated in the first place. If for the sole aim of educating the beer drinking public. But thats not the aim, and I am not seeing anything that is going to change it, nor do I see the will of these guys to really explore something different. As I understand it, they will go along with whatever is decided on.

Ok lets motivate as many SOBA members as possible plus any friends and partners as possible and take this thing and make one or more of the major breweries brew it, exactly to our specification? Hmm interesting concept.

Now that sounds like fun............

[nzbrewer]

what has happened to Our Brew? haven't heard much from them recently

[Tony]

Have they gone off the boil? haha. woops sorry, bad pun.

[Barry]

Their forum has been dead for a week.