The Coopers Kit

[jt]

Ok, I'm going to do it, but maybe not quite yet. And there was talk about an Imperial Coopers. I know Mr Cherry's keen too, yes ?

I thought it might be handy to string this together in one place.

Now I'm not going to brew until the weather cools a bit, I'm getting 20C + in the garage right now and I wouldn't want to do that to my Coopers kit would I ?

First questions first though, Draught or Lager ?
Next up, what to add to it.
Not sugar, no. maybe dextrose, maybe LME, or maybe just a kg of pale mashed ?

[MrC]

I reckon! Chris you naysayer!

I've just been doing some reading and "apparently" you only get that cidery taste from adding table sugar!

[Michael]

Chris has a point...I think the cidery bit has a lot to do with the yeast. Even with using DME and dextrose, I found the Coopers kits to be a touch cidery when brewed with the kit yeast. However, when I used S05, or something else for the yeast, the cidery taste was gone.

The Coopers kit yeast are so good at making a cider flavor, that I used it to make my apple cider. :)

It worked quite well.

[Chris Banks]

I agree table sugar is the worst culprit but that yeast plays a part in it im sure of it!

I double dare you both to make a coopers lager (without any extra hops to hide it) and
use a kilo of whatever pale grain/extract/dextrose/sugar (no specials) you like to top it of
then use the cider oh I mean coopers yeast to ferment it at any temp you like!

And if it doesnt have a cider taste I will drink a bottle of mangatainokas finest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reviled]

Table sugar isnt even bad, as long as you dont go crazy and put in 20% I reckon its fine!!

I regularly use 5-10% table sugar and dont find a 'cidery' taste in my beers...

I reckon its a combination of like 50% sugar, kit yeast, and aged kits giving the cider taste!!

[Chris Banks]

Just found this
"Belgian beers use table sugar, and they do not taste cidery.

Cidery flavors happen when there is not enough nutrients from the malt to help the yeast eat the sugar. The general rule of thumb is you can have up to 30% sugar base without any off flavors.

The problem with the kits is they often require 40-50% sugar base, and often contain glucose in the extract itself. To offset the thinning, they tend to contain more dextrins as well.

You also get cidery flavors from a green beer. If they were good in the past, then maybe a difference in temp has effect the fermentation rates, and it is aging slower then usual? "

[JoKing]

It's definately yeast that produces cidery flavours. As Chris says sugar doesn't contain any nutrients essential for healthy fermentation. The dehydrated yeast that comes with the kits is a pretty cheap solution to fermentation. It's not the best strain for producing clean beer - and to top it off: they only give you 5 grams of it!

Underpitch + 50% sugar = rapid onset of Acetyldehyde.

[MrC]

Underpitch + 50% sugar = rapid onset of Acetyldehyde.
That's why I was thinking of not adding sugar (OK, maybe a little) and adding some US-05 or S33 so as not to underpitch and hopefully mellow the esters a little.

[JoKing]

You could use 2 packs of coopers kit yeast... I have some here if you're keen MrC...

[Chris Banks]

Hey Joking what I posted was copied from the internet but it said what I was trying to say!

Glad someone else is on the same page! lol

[jt]

I was thinking of two kit yeasts - but steering clear of 05 or S33

Afterall, what's the characteristic that's common between the kit & the bottle ?

cant say I enjoyed it that much

I can understand that, but it's something you just gotta do - like brewing with SO4

[MrC]

I was thinking of two kit yeasts
But then you'll have two kits and a new dilemma...

[jt]

One to brew with US-05 and no new dilemma !