Shandy Application

[AndrewC]

Hello everyone.  You may have heard about us (Moutere Brewing Co, the brewing arm of the Moutere Inn) attempting to trademark 'Shandy'. That is, the use of the term on canned, bottled or kegged product.

We're making a point with this application.  We're expecting the application to be turned down in which case Iponz will be treating the little guys and the big guys differently.  If it's accepted there really is something wrong with the system and it's not our intention to limit the use the the word Shandy.

Why Shandy?  Moutere Brewing is trying to remain as authentic as possible to the German heritage of the Moutere Inn and the general area and we'd like to have a Radler.  We can't.

I'll keep you updated on any happenings.

[kier]

and excellent beers they are too.

[Ralph]

So if Soren makes the beer on gear that is not his then he is contract brewing as well as actual brewing and can call it "brewing"??

[Simon Cooke]

some of NZ's heavyweight brewers rely on contract brewing. Things would be pretty gutless if you HAD to own your own s/s.
Am I right in my understanding that contract brewing means, to brew your beer in someone elses gear? not to pay someone to brew your recipe in their gear?

[Ralph]

Well there is the thing.

 

As far as I know Soren brews his beer in gear that is owned by Renaissance and that is called contract brewing.

and as far as I know some contract brewers basically give a brewery a recipe and simply sell the product... There might have been a bunch of R&D (eg brewing at home to get the recipe right), but the actual brew is done by the brewery and not the person contracting them to do it.

 

Both called contract brewing, but not quite the same thing?

 

Both methods can create some fantastic beer tho??

 

[Kelly Ryan]

Jeepers, I guess when we're developing a new brew for Epic I better not go in and do that brewing thing anymore!

 

[Dai]

Are you the same guys that trade marked "Craft Beer Capital of New Zealand"?

[AndrewC]

I'm a member of the incorporated society that is looking to trademark Craft Brewing Capital,  not Beer.   It will be used to promote the Nelson region (breweries, outlets, tours and events) and you may see a brochure at Beervana.

[Dominic Kelly]

Unless and until someone gets in touch with IPONZ and withdraws IP application 838605 (which I'm told is going to happen) the correct answer to Dai's question is "yes". Although the actual wording of the application excluded "of New Zealand".

[Dai]

Why would you need to trademark such a term?  Please do not say "to protect our commercial interests". Surely you do not have to trademark something so that everyone will believe it to be true?  Can't beer drinkers make up their own minds about where they consider the 'Capital' to be?

[Greig McGill]

Andrew: Much as I love the attitude behind what you're doing here, I think there's an issue with interpretation somewhere. Have you read the ruling from IPONZ? As was stated earlier, it's the law that's the problem. We (SOBA) ended up having to show that in 2003 a reasonable proportion of NZ knew what a Radler was. We couldn't do that. I think you'll have an impossible time proving that a reasonable proportion of people in NZ don't know what a shandy is now, and thus, you will be unsuccessful, and without showing any form of double standard between big and small brewers at all.

 

The issue is not that DB has a trademark on Radler. It is that, if I travelled back in time, I'd have been able to trademark Pinot Noir. If something is a well known, generic term elsewhere in the world, and that's the way that thing is referred to or could be expected to be referred to (to show origin, for example with Radler), then IPONZ shouldn't grant a trademark. There's no double standard here. No big versus small (even though that's been the media spin). Simply shitty trademark law. Any big versus small issues come about because bigger breweries have deeper pockets and time to apply for trademarks on these terms. A small company could misuse the law just as much. *cough* Matariki Wines *cough*.

 

Also, regarding the "Craft Brewing Capital" trademark, as you know, SOBA has maintained a fairly hard stance on that. I hope you now understand why? It was never meant as an attack on your fine organisation, but now you hopefully understand why we're so anti trademarking generic words and phrases. It ends up causing animosity, outrage, and injustice.

 

Martin: Oi! What's this ragging on contract brewers? I was going to bring you a nice rigger of Brewaucracy PIL too! ;P

[Martin townshend]

nothing against matey. just a trademarked anyhtinng by anyone is getting on my tits

[kier]

I don’t think Martin is criticising the excellent NZ contract brewers that have done so much for this country’s craft beer scene (Epic, 8 Wired, 666…..etc).

 

His (and my) problem is the cynical perversion of the contract brewing concept for marketing purposes only (which sounds depressingly similar to the recent and historical behaviour of “the big two”). 

 

House/relabelled beers are common throughout NZ.  What’s to stop every pub in the country creating its own “brewing company” and marketing the work of others as their own?  Where is the integrity?  Isn’t it hypocritical for those in the craft beer scene to criticise DB while executing similar marketing stunts themselves?

 

It has the potential to dilute the reputation of many genuine, talented contract brewers and brew-pubs.

 

I was pleased to see that the recent bronze medal awarded to “Neudorf Ale” was credited to West Coast Brewery and not MBC – so at least there is evidence of some common sense on this issue.

 

(NB –  I’m still named on the Moutere Inn/MBC website as a part owner of the company.  I, with relief, left 9 months ago and have nothing to do with the business or any of the recent trademark applications.)

Kieron Lattimer