What are you brewing?

[nzbrewer]

Since this is the most popular thread on the RealBeer.co.nz forum I thought I would start it here just to see what happens

[Reviled]

There is a significant difference, ur more likely to get grapefruit than orange from NZ cascade, but hey, thats not to say it wont work eh ;)

[Reviled]

Better yet, brew urs and save me a bottle, and ill do the same?

[jt]

I didn't think you got your glass out for anything under 1040 ?

[Reviled]

Lol, youre getting me confused with someone else. Remember my 3% cream ale campaign last summer? Haha

[Llew Bardecki]

Finally getting around to making a Berliner Weisse (or something similar at least.)  I'm cheating a bit by doing it with a sour mash and fermenting with ale yeast rather than actually pitching bugs to ferment it.

 

Doing a 10L batch.

650g each of pilsner malt and wheat malt are resting at 68C right now.

Once this is done I'm planning on adding water to cool it to 40C, then throw in a handful of crushed grain.

Then it'll sit in the oven on minimum heat for 24 hours or until it's nice and sour.

 

Boil for 15 mins, adding 5 ibu worth of Pacifica.  Ferment out with US-05 or bread yeast... Can't decide which yet.  Should end up around 2.9% abv.

 

Now... Where can I find woodruff syrup in Wellington...

[denimglen]

"... Finally getting around to making a Berliner Weisse (or something similar at least.)  I'm cheating a bit by doing it with a sour mash and fermenting with ale yeast rather than actually pitching bugs to ferment it..."

 

Not cheating at all, this is how I plan to do my next one.  My original one took a big pitch of lacto, fermented two days before I added SO5 and it was barely tart.  Made a bloody good thirst quencher at bugger all ABV and nice and light.

 

Use SO5, or drag some slurry off another fermenter.  I've tasted bread yeast in a couple 'drinks' before and it's not that flash.

 

Woodruff Syrup.

[Dougal]

Denim,

What's the difference between soured mash sourness and fermentation sourness? They're both lacto right, but does going through the boil give it a different flavour?

[denimglen]

Haha complex question that I can't really answer as I've only done 4 sours so far.

 

In a Berliner Weiss, in the fermentor, the majority of the time the only bacteria used is lactobacillus, which is pretty clean fermenting as far as bacteria go and produces mostly lactic acid.  It will through a little esters as well I found, a touch of that pie-cherry which I thought was interesting because that usually comes from brett.

 

For a sour mash, it will be mostly lacto but there's a lot of other stuff on the grain as well, it definitely smells hella funky when you're running off to the BK more so than the straight lacto ferment does.  The downside to sour mashing (but probably also an upside too) is that a lot of volatile aromatics will get boiled off.  

 

As far as the sour character goes in a Berliner Weiss the sour mash should be more complex, because of the different bacteria producing different acids.  You'll still get mostly lactic but you'll likely get a little acetic in there as well, and TBH I have no idea what other acids could pop up, but lactic and acetic are the main ones.  For the level of sourness you have a little more control with a sour mash, you could let it go until it stops souring or let it just drop a few points of gravity/pH, whereas with a pitched culture you can only hope for the best.

 

And then in the Flander's and Lambic beers, it gets even more messy with the introduction of pedio (lactic acid bacteria) and brett (can produce acetic).  And they'll all through their own esters and phenolics as well on top of the varying levels of acids depending on pitching rates, oxygen levels etc etc.

[Dougal]

Thanks!

That all sounds reasonable. I was thinking of the way that in cooking, vinegar's harshness is driven off by boiling for a while. Been meaning to try a sour mash and have been a bit stuck on a beer style to use. Was thinking of a sour porter, but Berliner Weiss could be better still

[denimglen]

Interesting point you make I hadn't thought of that.

 

It is a possibility though, boiling temp for Acetic is 118C and 122C for lactic, so it's possible there could be some reduction in the boil, but the sour mash beer I brewed was plenty sour.

 

BW is a good cantidate, I think the Flander's styles and fruit lambics are also.

[Dougal]

Hmm. I don't think spaghetti sauce is going to get that far over 100C, even allowing for sugars. I reckon you're right the first time: that other, more volatile components of the flavour are driven off in the boil.

[denimglen]

Yeah, I'm no scientist or anything but doesn't it work like water?   Boiling temp is 100C but it will still evaporate off the ground because it picks up enough energy to do so.

 

Fuck I didn't pay that much attention in 6th form haha.