CS 9 Session Stout

[paul m]

Extract Brew with speciality malts based loosely on John Palmers -Porto Palmer.

Brew day was 20 April 2013

2.7kg of muntons pale liquid extract

1kg of crystal malt

0.8kg of roasted barley

0.8kg of black patent malt

0.3kg of chocolate malt

1kg of dark crystal malt

0.8kg of dextrose

5g of Gypsum

Steeped grain at 70 deg. for an hour

Hops

60min  10g target

30min 20g fuggles 20g northdown

20min 10g challenger

Added Kopperfloc at 15min before end.

Chilled with immersion chiller to 25 deg after 1 hour. Wort tasted like burnt toast so thats pretty promising!

In fermenter 1.050 26L

Hydrated Nottingham Yeast at 38-40 deg. may have been a tad high for the poor yeast. 19degrees Bubbling at airlock after 48 hours Fairly sluggish . I upped temp by 0.3 deg per day until 21 deg

checked gravity on day 12 - 2 May 1.022. had to take it out of fermentation chamber so fluctauted around 20 to 22 deg after that using a loosely fitted heated belt overnight. Checked again on 13th still 1.022. Added 1 Litre of highly active US05 around 1.045. Got some action on the airlock but then remained at 1.022 until 22 May. So almost  a month in the fermenter! Alcohol is  3.8%. But i think its a bit stiffer than that for some reason.

Bottled with dextrose for 130g for 26 L of beer 22nd May. 

Sorry guys when you receive the beer It may need to be  kept warm for a week 21 deg just to finish carbonation. And after store in the fridge for a week or two before drinking. Pour at around 7 degrees. Looking forward to your feedback.

[Tom C]

Appearance Little head – golden brown and fast fading, Very deep black beer

 

Aroma Dry roast, almost burnt aroma, Chocolate/coffee notes, Green apple - Acetaldehyde

 

Flavour Rounded roasty (as aroma suggests), Lingering chocolate finish, Marred by acetaldehyde

 

Mouthfeel Full, Long finish, Slightly astringent

 

Overall Good body, nice roasted flavours.  Would be a very decent stout, but let down by fermentation problem.

[DP]

Appearance
Rich, black pour with a coffee brown head which falls back gradually. Good lacing.

Aroma
Chocolate, coffee with acetaldehyde hiding under the roastiness

Palate
Good levels of carbonation. The sweetness is balanced by the dryness of the roast.

Flavour
A puckering amount of roast. Apples. Musty. Sweet/under attenuated. Can taste the acetaldehyde which makes it more noticeable in the aroma.

Overall
This has got the potential to be an excellent stout. Might be worth winding the black and roast back to about half as well as removing the dextrose and a with healthy fermentation starting at a lower temperature. Cheers!

[mattd2]

So part of the reason I got into this was to develop my palate (as well as drink some good homebrew!), I have been following the feedback so when I saw the others pick up acetaldehyde in this I really wanted to see for myself. Looking through the recipe I didn’t think it would be due to being young after reading the length this was fermented for so I gave it a crack. Tried this at the beginning of the week so working off my notes here:

Appearance: Deep black, dense tan head. Good lacing.

Aroma: Roasted malt/Coffee, Green apple, alcohol (?)

Flavour: Roast/coffee/grainy. Slight green apple, slightly astringent.

Mouthfeel: Decent body with good carb level for a stout.

Overall: The potential is there, I wouldn’t be able to session this due to the body but if the green apple flavour wasn’t there it would be a good weekday beer. Maybe drop the dextrose, up the LME and cut out one of the crystals?

Thanks and Cheers!

[paul m]

Hi All, thanks for the feedback so far. I'll definitely reduce the black and roast on the next batch. I cant smell any green apple flavour.  I thought i could get away without the temp control in the latter part of the fermentation. So hey, learnt something new there.

The most stand out flavours for me is roasty burnt and astringent. Astringent- not my preferred flavour of beer. what would be the source of the astringent flavours, tannins? I don't think I've brewed a beer with such strong astringent flavours before. I've got 3/4 of a corney keg of this - i think its going to take a while to drink this one! Sorry about sharing such a barely drinkable beer!

[Tom C]

I still have a bottle of this (the first tasting was of Damian's) so I'll leave it for a couple of weeks and feedback again.

Regarding the grain bill, I'd go the other way - wind back the crystal and boost the roast although I'm not sure about quantities for extract brews.

My 'Session' Dry Stout bill is: 2750g Maris Otter, 500g Roast Barley, 500g Flaked Barley, 250g Wheat for 20L @4%ish

[Max Giles]

Hey Paul.
Appearance. Incredibly black. Little to no head.

Aroma.  Burnt aroma. Coffee and something else i could only describe as mushroomy!

Flavour Got a lovely burnt and coffee flavour to it. But slightly off putting wee the flavours of a mushroom gravy. Really odd thing to taste but maybe that was the 'Acetaldehyde' that other people are talking about. My pallet is not very developed.

overall i liked the flavours all apart from the odd fungal taste. It wasn't and overpowering taste but it was definitely there. Would love to taste a version 1.2 of this

[paul m]

cheers Max, I don't think i've ever come across a mushroom gravy flavour before!! Sounds like it might be an infection? sorry about that. strange cos a cleaned bottles and lids with nappy san and rinsed and then starsan sterilisation. and it was  a brand new bottle! bazaar 

[Tilt]

Great description.  This made me laugh.  I made a beer a year or so ago (a Coopers sparkling clone from recultured bottle yeast) that had a 'shroom thing going on too.  And it had a blue tinge in the glass....  whacked, I know. 

The comments after it did the rounds at a WBC, where I was looking for fault finding ideas on where the flavour came from and what it might be, were something along the lines of - "weird, interesting...but not infected!" 

I was pretty sure there wasn't a future in the style so I'm gave up on pursuing it and figured it was going to remain one of life's mysteries.  So....interesting to know you've spawned the beast too Paul, wanna swap recipes?!

[Adam Barnes]

Appearance – Large chocolate coloured head, looked quite syrupy/full during the pour. A deep black colour.

Aroma – Mellow coffee, and I was getting notes of whisky.

Flavour – Burnt toffee flavour and too much roast for me.  

Mouthfeel – Quite a light body, which was a surprise, as after the pour I was expecting something quite full. Slightly sharp, which I thought was due to the roast. Good carbonation.

Overall – Needed more body and less roast for me. I tasted this without reading the previous notes and I had put the off flavours down to too much roast, but looks like there was something else going on.

Thanks

[Tilt]

This poured a deep, dark, opaque black with a thin coffee coloured head which lasted a minute  or so.  On intial smell I get some vegetal with a hint of vanilla and a lighter roast coffee bean aroma in the background.  Taste wise its tangy and then comes the roast - a hefty ash and roast flavour on the side on my tongue which then finishes off with an earthy aftertaste I'm putting down to the Fuggles.  Actelylaldehyde doesn't taste like green apples to me - its more like a sour, spritzy slightly tannic leading taste like an overbrewed black tea that then makes way for the other malt and hop flavours behind. I like the mouthfeel - its got a medium weight to it that seems right for this beer. This has potential - I was keen to taste how the high roast/black and crystal ratios played together in this, and I've gotta say there's something in the combo you've used.   I've come to the conclusion on the basis of this recipe that I'm not ballsy enough with my stouts.  Thanks for letting me try a recipe I probably wouldnt have brewed myself - I've learnt something tonight, cheers mate

[Luke Davey]

Appearance: Almost opaque black, slightly syrupy, small brown (espresso like) head, that quickly disapears

Nose: I got a lot of nice roast notes, but couldn't distinguish a lot else (have a cold coming on).

Taste: Burnt toffee with mild chocolate hints. I get another note - liquorice I think, but I'm not positive.

Mouthfeel: Medium to full body, very smooth, almost syrupy, carbonation spot on.

Overall: At the end of a cold day on the water, this was a very welcome drink. When i poured it it almost looked too syrupy, but it went down very well. The flavour was brilliant. I didn't pick up any off flavours in mine. Cheers.

[Tom C]

Tried the second bottle:

Head was a more sustained espresso/tan.

When cold the nose was roasty coffee and chocolate, the mouth felt rounded and full of coffee & chocolate flavour with a dry roast finish.

But as it warmed up the acetaldehyde was still there on the nose, but much reduced.  And the finish became more harsh and astringent.

Certainly improved for the extra couple of weeks in the bottle and well worth brewing again with good healthy yeast.