Stuck?

[David R]

Brewed this on 17-Dec, pitched rehydrated US-05 at 17C and kept it there for a couple of days before raising it to ~20C, yeast took off with a flurry of action then slowed right down after a few days. It was still at 1.022 a week ago so I chucked another rehydrated pack of US-05 at it on Friday, but it still hasn't moved from there. I mashed at 68C but it lost a couple of degrees over the hour as I forgot to insulate the pot.

Not really sure what to do with it now, chuck a saison yeast at it to try get it to finish lower? Tip it down the drain? Drink it as-is?

Type: All Grain
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 24.44 l
Final Bottling Vol: 18.30 l
Equipment: BIAB 20L
Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Bitterness: 24.8 IBUs
Est Color: 5.6 SRM

Ingredients

Amt	Name	Type	#	%/IBU
3.90 kg	Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)	Grain	1	81.2 %
0.50 kg	Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)	Grain	2	10.4 %
0.40 kg	Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)	Grain	3	8.4 %
7.00 g	Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min	Hop	4	12.9 IBUs
10.00 g	Amarillo [8.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min	Hop	5	3.7 IBUs
10.00 g	Riwaka [6.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min	Hop	6	2.6 IBUs
20.00 g	Amarillo [8.40 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min	Hop	7	3.7 IBUs
15.00 g	Riwaka [6.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min	Hop	8	2.0 IBUs

[David R]

Cheers for all the advice guys, hope the local guy has the MJ yeast in stock!

[Ryan Perkins]

Hi David, I am in Whangarei and I have a bit of WLP007 if you cant get hold of the farmhouse yeast.  It is a hungry and fast working yeast so it might get it down a bit.  Send me a PM if you are interested.

[Peter Smith]

007 is great for this purpose and makes great dry stout   8)

[Crusader-Rob]

I would suggest two issues here:

1- Poor yeast health, this isn't necessarily your fault, but the rehydration period may have had something to do with it.

2- couple that with a mash temp of 68 degrees and you'll be more likely to end up at where your at.

(I've been in your shoes before and it sucks) add to the mash temp your variance of up to 2 degrees as you mentioned, plus possible heat gain from the pot. I presume you BIAB, which means you can get some initial heat gain from here initially. so if you say your mash temp was 68, it could be more up around 70 degrees.....

I'm a current BIABer and found that I need to mash at least 1 degree lower than any suggested recipe (except those already at the 64-65 range (I just leave it for 90 mins then, as the heat loss will give me more fermentables.) Just some food for thought.

[Crusader-Rob]

But if it was me try rousing it to see if you can get it down to 18/19. If not then I'd throw some 3711 at it.If you can get it.

[David Williams]

If you hit that OG and with the volume one pack of s05 let alone 2 should have been sufficient. You have a lot of yeast in there already and a fair bit of sugar so I'd be rousing the hell out of it.

[Barry]

Yeah what David said. I'd be really reluctant to add more yeast.

If anything I'd get some more s05 really active in some simple starter wort and throw it in at peak activity. Mixing in some saison yeast at this stage isn't going to do much to rescue the beer.

[Peter Church]

Would your setup enable you to draw off some of the slurry from the bottom of your fermenter, you could then try the fast ferment test, see link below,

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fast_Ferment_Test

you could also pitch some of the harvested yeast into a fresh starter and monitor the results to see if there are any yeast health issues

end of the day this is an opportunity to learn.. for all of us, so what ever the outcome keep us posted

[Des Ross]

I think your fermentation may well be finished and not stuck. The easiest way to know for sure without compromising the whole batch, would be to draw off some beer into a plastic screw top bottle (hopefully with a reasonable amount of yeast) give it a good shake and leave in a warm place. If after about a week there is no obvious sign of fermentation ( eg the bottle does not expand or tighten due to CO2 release) then you can be fairly certain fermentation has finished and other factors previously mentioned ( high mash temp leaving unfermentable dextrins ) may be the cause of the high FG. I recently mashed higher than 67C for the first time....a Levitation clone at 69C, mashing in at 72C to allow for the temperature drop. I have since learnt that at these temperatures conversion can be complete within 10-15 minutes! I had cultured and pitched a huge WL007 starter ( renouned as a very aggressive yeast) for the 60l batch and with temperature control had a strong fermentation for 4 days, before slowing down. After 2 weeks FG was .020 but it had definitely finished. I'm now convinced that if you mash at high temps, mash in at the target and then increase as the introduced grain is added. I think you might have mashed higher than 68C and ended up in a similar position as me with way too much dextrin in the beer! If this is the case, rousing or re pitching, will only compromise the beer. Sorry about the essay!

[David Williams]

I know bugger all about sugar types but I do keep records off attenuation so I know what FG to expect from a yeast and whether or not I need to mash lower/longer to dry out bigger beers etc. If I was mashing at 68 degrees with s05 and not getting an attenuation of at least 75% I'd be cursing the yeast and rousing it for being a lazy bastard. You're talking about an attenuation of 53% or so if you hit your OG. 

[Chris]

Sounds like the yeast might of hibernated at the start due to low temperatures.

Which puts in a delay, those delays mean off flavours.

What was your measured OG?

It will still be drinkable and only you can decide if you want to drink it as-is and give it a shot.

Could rack off to a secondary and leave for longer but it sounds like this was for sooner rather than later drinking

[David R]

Measured OG was actually 1.050 before being diluted with pre-boiled water in the fermenter to 1.048.

I've tried rousing and haven't had much action yet. Also picked up a packet of the MJ Belgian yeast (didn't have the farmhouse one) so if it doesn't move in a day or two I might rack it and pitch that. I don't have particularly high hopes for this beer now (shame, as it's been a pretty good lawnmower-type beer in the past when I've brewed it with all Amarillo and Citra), but I think if it is finished at 1.022 the 3.5% ABV, high FG and low IBU the sweetness will make me wish I'd not wasted my time bottling it.

Peter, that looks like an interesting experiment, but I think it would be difficult for me to draw the yeast off the bottom of the carboy, and TBH I really just want it empty so I can get on with more brewing! Rob may be right about the increase in temp from BIAB, this was my first [and only] time mashing in the pot, usually I mash in a chilly bin with the grains in a bag then siphon to the kettle. The temp may well have crept up a couple of degrees during the early stages of the mash and then dropped as time went on. Incidentally, I'm on the cusp of ordering a Grainfather, and one of the bug pluses for me is the ease of setting the mash temp and the stability during the mash. Maybe it's time to push the "buy" button...