Sour Beer

[sockmerchant]

I have been on a huge sour beer kick as of late. Especially flanders red and oud bruin. Lambic's can be a bit more hit and miss for me.

A few questions

Are any (commercial) brewers in NZ venturing into there territories as yet? It would be awesome to see an NZ take on the these beers. They are a giant pain in the bum to brews though, so i wouldnt be surprised if no one has.

Does anyone on here do these? I have started a couple recently, but clearly it will take some time before i know if i did a good job. Would be awesome to do some bottle swaps in the future. 

Assuming someone has brewed some flanders style sours, have you used WLP665 Flemish Ale Blend? Impressions? How does it compare to wyeast Roesalari blend?

Cheers 

[Greig McGill]

Depends on the barrel too. I've had Funkonnay which made Rodenbach Grand Cru seem a little sweet! :)

[sockmerchant]

Possible 

I much prefer the flanders beers to lambic. The funkonnay, while sort of its own thing definitely leans more towards the lambic style

I freakin love the grand cru though. Its not juts the tart sourness, but that perfect level of cherry dark fruit that comes from the the bugs/wild yeast. So....damn.....good!

i am quite partial to Goudenband as well...mmmmm can go for some right now 

[Andrew Childs]

Black Dog has released theirs, only at their bar in Wellington... Did'nt you do one Greig? 8 wired brewed one but they are aging it I think

[Paul Harrison]

Mikes Strawberry tart is a good sour (more tart than sour)

Black Dog make a berlinnerweiss but I don't think they are bottling. Unless of course you go to the brew pub and fill a rigger yourself.

8 Wired recently made a grand cru that was bretty. don't know if that was bottled. I'd say unlikely.

Homebrewing wise I've used the wyeast roselare blend. Not sour at all. Really I don't think brett provides sourness. They provide a musty taste that I'm struggling to describe. perhaps over time sourness occurs?

Ben Middlemiss Note bene was bottled with something funky Its been a while since I tried it. give that a go.

[sockmerchant]

Cool

I have mucked around with bretta little bit. As you said it does not create sourness. roselare does have some brett i think but it also has Lacto, Pedio, Sherry yeast and Saccharomyces. The sourness comes from the lacto and pedio (and acetobacter to a lesser degree)

From what i have heard, roselare doesnt really start to create much sourness until about month 8. When was yours brewed?

I have brewed a bit with brett recently, and mr brewshop Peter will be getting me in some other brett strains too. I intend to do some 100% brett beers. 

I currently have a rye saison goin with the "american farmhouse yeast blend", which as a farmhouse yeast (probabaly saison) and some brett as well (not sure which strain). Fermenting away furiously with no temp control at the mo. The saisons i did with temp control were far too bland. 

[Ralph]

Sounds like you are wanting the sour mash type beers rather than the sour by aging and brett (which I think does go sour, but it takes a while!). Dougal has done some Brett beers including a full Brett fermentation. I think he has a bunch that are in the aging process at the moment and so hopefully comes along with his input on the Brett side of things.

I have not met many people that have tried homebrew sour mashing... but from the one I did it seems relatively simple.

[sockmerchant]

I will do a sour mash for a berlinner.

But no i am more talking about long term flanders red/brown. I have a couple going right now, and will do a another flanders red in the next couple of weeks. 

I have not gotten much in the way of sourness from brett. As i said, most of the sourness comes from lacto and pedio. 

I am tempted to try doing a sourmash, and then pitching brett for aging. See if that gets me something similar.

The whole sour beers and wild yeast thing is quite fascinating to me.

[Dougal]

Actually, it wasn't me who did the 100% Brett beer, it was denimglen. (To whom I totally owe a couple of bottles!!)
I have a 10month old lambic and Flanders Red down. I'd started them off with Wyeast Roeselare, which had sort of stalled on both at around 1.010.  I've just added the cultured dregs from a Cantillon lambic which is kicking them off again nicely. If you like dry, funky and sour, then Cantillon is definitely for you. I got mine from Regional Wines and Spirits.

[sockmerchant]

Dang! I forgot to check their site :) I have a nice sour shipment coming my way.  I have chucked in some dregs from a  few lambics etc. Didnt know regional had Cantillon though (look like they only have kriek), also grabbing some 3 fonteinen etc.

and yeah, I prefer the funky and quite sour ones :)

We should do a bottle swap next year.

EDIT: Bah a lot of their stuff is out of stock. Not cool!

[Dougal]

Yeah, you need to pick up the uncommon sours when you see them. Sure, I'd be keen for a sour bottle swap once I've bottled some.

You should check out http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/forum.html?tid=1108752780&pg=1 if you haven't already. Some great info.

[sockmerchant]

Thanks for the links.... but they all lead to the front page of the babblebelt. Been reading a lot of stuff there.

What were you trying to point me to in particular? 

[Dougal]

Yep, sorry, I was having a linking fail! :-) If you're already looking at it and reading Mad Fermentationist then you're well up to speed.