Reoccurring gusher bug?

[David R]

In the three years I've been brewing in our new house I've had several (5-6 of 16) beers infected with gusher bugs. I've switched from plastic to glass fermenters, started using starsan instead of that BS "no-rinse" stuff most rookies get conned into using as it comes with the kit, and even gone back to using carbonation drops to reduce the chance of infecting it while batch priming. Even so, my latest brew (Stone Levetation amber ale remix) is already tasting "gusher-y" (despite being dry-hopped twice with 6g/L Amarillo/Cascade mix, and the first bottle tasting bloody good, it has almost no maltyness and no hop flavour/aroma, just that thin, bitter, fizzy taste) and has way more fizz than it should. It's only had 15 days in the bottle, and already I have to be super-careful when opening and pouring to avoid it foaming everywhere, I wouldn't be surprised if in another week or three they'll be erupting as soon as the cap comes off.

I think I'm pretty careful with sanitation during the brewing/fermenting stage going by what I've seen others do when I've brewed with them, and in this recent case I even ran the bottles through a commercial steriliser at a friends cafe and sanitised with starsan before bottling. I soak the carboys in napisan between brews, then rinse and sanitise with starsan. Having just bought a grainfather and kegging gear to step up production, I really want to get to the root of this problem as it is starting to piss me off having lost so many good brews!

Firstly, what are the chances that it could be caused by some sort of airborne yeast/bacteria? I never had a problem in our old house, but our new place is set into the bush and I do all the brewing/bottling downstairs in the garage and spare room, which can be quite damp and musty at times, if not kept well ventilated and/or heatpump running. I'm pretty liberal with my applications of starsan, most things are soaked in it as well as being misted with a solution from a spray bottle if they've come into contact with anything or been out of the soaking bucket too long. Which leads me to the second question;

Once something like this has come into contact with plastic brew gear (siphons, spoons, wine thief, racking cane etc) how hard is it to completely remove it? Any suggestions for what to use for a real thorough soak/clean?

Losing this latest brew is a real kick in the guts, especially as it comes just after spending a fair bit of cash on gear for a hobby that I otherwise thoroughly enjoy!

[David R]

Peter;

I'm using 750 crate bottles. In the past I have batch-primed, but recently switched back to drops to minimise the opportunity for infection. I took the bottles that had been run through the steriliser, filled each one ~1/4 with starsan, rotated to thoroughly wet each surface, repeated, drained, took them downstairs, misted the tops with more starsan, added the drops, and used the autosiphon (which had been soaking in starsan) and racking cane to transfer straight from the fermenter to the bottles. If I do manage to carefully open and pour one it doesn't taste "normal", just thin and bitter, little to no aroma, mouthfeel or flavour.

As for the kegging, I'm about to head into town now and pick up my own CO2 bottle to complete my kegerator set up. I'm hoping that will help things, but I would still like to bottle some beers to age them, and I'll be rather disappointed to say the least if after six months or more I'm left with nothing but fizz!

Hamish;

Haven't noticed any skin, but the last one was dry hopped so it may have been hard to see. Thermometer could be a problem, but I mashed this last one at 68C so even if it is a few degrees out it should have been ok. I'm just using a couple of those cheap MadMillie thermometers, but I've "calibrated" this them in an ice bucket and compared them side by side in boiling wort and know that one reads 2C high and one reads 2C low. Good idea checking the FG in the bottle, this one did stall out at 1.020 but I pitched another sachet of yeast (Danstar Nottingham) and it took off again and came down to 1.014.

Peter;

I did wonder that with this particular beer, but one of the other beers that got hit was a Citra Saison that finished at 1.000 flat. I primed that one with 8g/L dextrose and it erupts like a volcano. The other thing that makes me suspect a bug is what it does to the flavour, the recurring theme has been that they all lose the flavour I'd expect from that particular beer and end up tasting of the same thin and bitter flavour.

Rob;

I have had it happen to a couple of beers made with US05, but also to one with Danstar Belle Saison that finished at 1.000. I'm always rehydrating the yeast, though going by what I read recently I may have been rehydrating it for too long. And I certainly don't fear the foam!
My fermenters are glass (ditched the plastic ones with taps when this first started happening), so they usually get scrubbed with a brush then soaked with napisan. In the past I've always rinsed the plastic stuff (autosiphon, hoses, racking cane etc) thoroughly with high-pressure immediately after use, and sanitised thoroughly before using again, but I guess there could potentially be something lurking in a tiny scratch somewhere. Perhaps I should give everything a good soak in PBW? Where do you get the pure percarbonate?

I'll open a bottle of the latest one and let it go flat so I can take a reading now. As I said it was 1.014 before bottling, so it will be interesting to see what I get this time. OG was 1.050, mashed at 68C...

[Barry]

1.050 mashed at 58, finished at 1.014. What yeast for that one David?

[David R]

Danstar Nottingham

[Barry]

So that's about 72% apparent attenuation. For Nottingham I'd say that's about 4-6% off expected. That could definitely account for some underattenuation.

Danstar website says it should ferment down to 1.008.

[Hamish Jones]

That's were I'd be putting my money if I was a betting man,

try cracking a lid ever so slightly until you hear a hiss  then release, you only want to break the seal ever so slightly and not dent the lid this will relieve carbonation levels, do this every hour for a day or so and you'll notice the foaming will subside in the bottle then chill and try one and see if its any better,

If this works and the beer is drinkable I'd be doing it to all of the bottles but be seriously careful as if they are massively over carbed you risk bottle bombs and you don't want to be part of that show

[David R]

FG of the flat beer is 1.011, so three points less than when bottled. It tastes good too, despite being flat and warm. So I guess in this case you're likely correct about it not being finished, I'll release the pressure in the bottles today and see how that goes.

Not sure what happened with the Saison though, it finished out at 1.000 so certainly hadn't under-attenuated!

[Peter Smith]

Add a secondary to the ferment so rack from a 23L carboy to a 19L 2 weeks into ferment....   dont leave much air at top,   the introduced oxygen in this process is not great but often restarts the ferment.....  2 weeks secondary and maybe full ferment....   I have degassed beers and seen others do it, takes patience as you have to do it quite a few times to allow the co2 to come out of solution but it does work.  Beer def tastes "thin" if overcarbed.  gets mouthfeel back as it decarbs big time,  I have rescued a big stout this way but it took over a week of attention to get to a still overcarbed but openable bottle of beer.   I totally swore off us05 do to these issues and have'nt have too many issues since choosing 1272 which is a nice safe yeast with similar characteristics but better floc when cold crashed imho.   If it where infected it normally tastes sour or minerally def not bland from past disasters.

Get that Co2 bottle up and running kegging is the dogs bollocks, but show patience, carb slowly over 2-3 weeks while cold conditioning

Also oxygen in the wort after boil does seem to make a difference for me as do big starters/repitches.  but I would avoid repitching until you have a few good brews done, or if you harvest keep the yeast for 3 weeks so you can sample the beer before reusing.  I tend to try and harvest a lot from a less hoppy first gen batch and use that over 2-3 months.

These are a great deal     http://www.labwarehouse.co.nz/Glass-bottle-screw-cap--borosilicate-...

[Barry]

Yeah that's a pretty astounding finish. Would surprise me if that one didn't have a bug. Was it sour? Or just funky?

Be careful with those glass bottles mate.

[Peter Smith]

cut the bottom off a plastic milk bottle and put it over the bottles you are decarbing,  have seen the entire top come off and fly metres

[Peter Smith]

whats your brewpot made of?   I had 2 bad batches , aluminium pot,  oxy'ed the pot it came up shiney then you re oxidise by boiling water....    although I am 99% certain it was the autosyphon which I turfed at the same time

[David R]

Stainless. Came from the kitchen shop out Mt Albert.

[Crusader-Rob]

The percarb comes from a local suppleir here in chch.
If it was me I'd say you've got bottle infections possibly. starsan needs 20-30seconds contact time i normally submerse bottle for this amount and the whole bottle fills up then let them sit for 20 seconds or so and pour out.
something else you can do I've started doing this as well, aluminium foil spray with starsan and coverthe lids of the bottles keeps some bugs out. might be another step to use.