Radler - the story unfolds

[Geoff Griggs]

This is quite amazing. See attached file (you may need to download it and open it with Adobe Reader)

The sooner this lunacy is challenged and defeated the better!

[Greig McGill]

Well, if you were DB, would you want the publicity from taking money from a non-profit organisation?

[Mike Neilson]

I wonder if DB would sic their legal dogs onto every single craft brewery in NZ if they all added a Radler to their range?

[Ralph]

Or every person who imported a case of a european radler and decided to sell it...

[Toast]

Hello Folks.

From my reading of the judgement there, DB can't call a fruit/juice/syrup additive that is added to beer Radler. I.e. the resulting mix can, but the pre-mixed substance can't. Am I reading that wrong?

[Phil Murray]

Yeah, I think I agree with you, but could be easily convinced I'm wrong. Ie, you could sell some lemonade and call it "Radler-Mix", but you couldn't sell the end mixed with Beer product and call it "Radler"

[Ralph]

Social media are starting up too.

 

http://www.facebook.com/DominionBreweries

 

 

[Ralph]

So could someone make a Radler and sell it under the original name of Radlermass or would DB get their knickers in a knot over that as well??

[Green Man Brewery]

This is part of the letter we had to sign.

Dear Sirs

1. We, Green Man Breweries Ltd (GMB) undertake to DB Breweries Ltd:

(a) Not to again, and to procure that our directors, agents, employees, successors and assignees do not, produce, market, promote, sell or otherwise deal in New Zealand in any product using the term "Radler" or any visually or phonetically similar term, or directly or indirectly assist any third party to do so; and

[Barry]

Not a hint of anti-competitive practice in there. Yeah right.

 

[Richard Jack]

Careful, I hear DB has tried to regulate the use of that phrase before ;)

[Al Witham]

First up, I think DB’s actions stink and I totally agree it should not be legal to trade mark a beer style, even if it isn’t well known here.

However, I’m not convinced that IPONZ got it wrong. They have to apply the law as it is, they can’t change it. Only Parliament can do that. So you can only say IPONZ got it wrong if they misunderstood the law and
applied it wrongly.

The case depended on SOBA being able to prove that radler was a descriptive term that was relatively well established among New Zealand beer consumers in 2003 (not in Germany or in 2011). If you read the decision it’s clear that SOBA tried to prove exactly that. Which suggests to me that SOBA knew
that was the correct interpretation of the law, otherwise they would have
challenged that interpretation instead of trying to prove it.

If you think SOBA DID provide enough proof, then you can criticise the IPONZ decision. Back in 2003 a small group of hard core craft beer enthusiasts would have known what radler is, but I suspect the bulk of New
Zealand beer consumers, who buy mainstream brands, probably would not have
heard of radler.

It looks to me as if the problem is the law itself. It would be more productive for SOBA to concentrate on pushing for a law change so that it can’t happen again.

John Campbell rocks!

First up, I think DB’s actions stink and I agree it should not be legal to trade mark a beer style, even if it isn’t well known here.

 

However, I’m not convinced that IPONZ got it wrong. They have to apply the law as it is, they can’t change it. Only Parliament can do that. So you can only say IPONZ got it wrong if they misunderstood the law and
applied it wrongly.

 

The case depended on SOBA being able to prove that radler was a descriptive term that was relatively well established among New Zealand beer consumers in 2003 (not in Germany or in 2011). If you read the decision it’s
clear that SOBA tried to prove exactly that. Which suggests to me that SOBA knew
that was the correct interpretation of the law, otherwise they would have
challenged that interpretation instead of trying to prove it.

 

If you think SOBA DID provide enough proof, then you can criticise the IPONZ decision. Back in 2003 a small group of hard core craft beer enthusiasts would have known what radler is, but I suspect the bulk of New
Zealand beer consumers, who buy mainstream brands, probably would not have
heard of radler.

 

It looks to me as if the problem is the law itself. It would be more productive for SOBA to concentrate on pushing for a law change so that it can’t happen again.

 

John Campbell rocks!

[Mark]

Sorry, don't agree with that. They still trademarked a style, and how were they to know people were or weren't ignorant of it? IPONZ are supposed to be there to prevent what's just happened - they failed dismally.