original tui recipe

[Cain Harland]

I had a thought while driving past the tui brewery the other day. When Henry Wagstaff discovered the mangatinoka river and decided it was the perfect water source to brew his beloved India pale ale (as the advertising story goes) he would not have had the technology to brew a foul industrial adjunct lager so for a start it probably was actually an ale. He also was a brewer and may have had decent taste and taken some pride in the beer he produced. It would be interesting to find the original recipe and see how far off today's beer is. Any ideas where to find it?

[Dene McDonald]

I came here looking for the Original Speights recipe and saw your post! Aparently the author of the book "beer nation" did a recreation of a typical beer from the early 20th century so he will have some idea. I'm interested to know what you find out. 

I was looking at the history of hops in NZ and they were growing hops late in the 19th century so being able to work out what hops were grown here might help a little.

I do know that Speights was cask conditioned and dry hopped. From all accounts the beers of back then were around the 7-8 percent mark and usually all IPA styles or Porters and Stouts. If you talk to NZ Breweries they will tell you that the recipe hasn't been changed since 1876. I'll borrow the Tui saying here... Yeah Right!

[David R]

I must admit, I was pretty curious about the original Speights recipe after reading the book too. Fat chance of getting hold of it now I imagine, they wouldn't want to sully the current product...

[Dene McDonald]

Just doing a bit of research on the hops that were available in New Zealand in the late 1800s. 

"The original varieties cultivated were Fuggle, Bumford and Goldings from England, and Halletauer from Germany." Source

Wikipedia states that "Martyn Cornell, the British beer writer, has suggested that New Zealand Draught is partly an evolution of the late 19th century Mild Ale, which was popular with the British working classes, many of whom emigrated to New Zealand."Source

Looking at the BJCP style guidelines an English Mild is low to mid malt flavour and aroma. Low to moderate bitterness, enough to provide some balance but not enough to overpower the malt. Fruity esters moderate to none. Diacetyl and hop flavor low to none.  May have evolved as one of the elements of early porters. In modern terms, the name “mild” refers to the relative lack of hop bitterness (i.e., less hoppy than a pale ale, and not so strong). Originally, the “mildness” may have referred to the fact that this beer was young and did not yet have the moderate sourness that aged batches had. Pale English base malts (often fairly dextrinous), crystal and darker malts should comprise the grist. May use sugar adjuncts. English hop varieties would be most suitable, though their character is muted. Characterful English ale yeast.

Vital Statistics:	OG: 1.030 – 1.038
IBUs: 10 – 25	FG: 1.008 – 1.013
SRM: 12 – 25	ABV: 2.8 – 4.5%

So given that, I'd say that seeing Speights was launched in 1886 it would be an English Mild hopped with earthy hops. A bit darker and malter than what we see, and earthy rather than grassy. Tui is marketed as an IPA so my guess would be an English IPA using the same hops. It all gets a bit confusing as both Tui and Speights are now considered NZ Draught.

So for Speights maybe a mixture of Maris Otter, Crystal Malts and perhaps even a bit of chocolate. For IBU I'm guessing it would be a lot more than Speights and Tui, which I did see somewhere that they were in the 15-20 range.

Interestingly Speights give away on this page that they use Pacific Jade and Green Bullet, and clearly Speights and Tui are now lagers. 

I did drift away from what you asked, but clearly these were both earthy, hoppy, malty beers.

[Dene McDonald]

English IPA Style Guide will probably help with Tui: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style14.php#1a

[jt]

You should talk to Kieran Haslett-Moore.
He did a some research on NZ beers and I remember him talking about brewing something he called Bomber(or something like that)
It was his take on what the original Lion Brown or a New Zealand ale of the would have started as

[Paul Rogers]

Hey it I have an original metal beer sign that reads....

Brown Bomber, Imperial Brown Bomber Draught Ale, Brewed and Bottled By NZ Breweries Ltd, Auckland Branch, Best Of Bottled Beers.