mainstream beer

[Martin townshend]

Hi There,
As co owner of a pub that stocks a range of (mainly) craft and (a little) mainstream beer and a small commercial brewer, I was thinking of attempting to draw mainstream drinkers away from thier brands by attempting a clone of thier favourite tipple, (namely Tui.)
Before you choke on your bottle conditioned real ale IPA's, this hasn't been done yet, and I'll be the first to admit, this is just an idea and actually goes against my brewing ethos.
What I want to know is, what ingredients make this stuff? I tried a bottle a while ago, and as a total hop head, there didn't seem to be much in there with a very sweet finish. It must be a lager too with a dolop of caramel(?) and a shed load of sugar. (It's all ready sounding cheap to make....)
Perhaps this should have gone in the 'recipe advice thread' but maybe there is a Tui/Speights clone out there.....? Only malt, hops, water and yeast would be used.
If nothing else, I'm sure this may create a little discussion and general abuse in my direction!
M

[Mike Neilson]

You gone F'kn MAD Martin!!!

[Stu McKinlay]

Why oh why Martin?

Just make a nice pale mild for keg and you'll have a beer that is comparable but a lot better. If you're kegging it you'll need to make sure you have plenty of crystal in there. And if you can sell it for less, I'm sure you'll convince a few to switch!

[Martin townshend]

It's a sobering thought to even contemplate. But, with the experience i've had with dealing with the drinking public, the hardest to win over are the ones who are proudest about thier 'brand.' Note, not really what's in thier glass. The marketing gurus have done thier job remarkably well and the loyalty it provides is paying for itself. My slant on this was to offer a home made example that will enable them a 'loyalist' to sample something and go 'that ain't too bad. I'll have a jug.' One more joins the club.
It's what i inteneded with the Dinner Ale: it's a cask drop that is so not in your face and many folk who have tried it who had the 'bloody warm ,flat, pomme pisss' thing in thier heads have actually enjoyed it and one can then introduce them to other things with thier dignity and tastebuds intact.
Comprende?
M

[Mike Neilson]

Stick to your guns Martin, the turtle won the race not the hare!! Why degrade your product and give into the mass produced by brewing a quick switch beer such as a TUI clone, to get them into realbeer, If anything I would brew a Lager base recipe brewed with a zesty ale yeast chuck that into a cask and serve them that, I cant think of a better way to switch them but then again I could be wrong. I havnt tried your beers but is this what CATHCARTS NTA is like?

[MrC]

If you just stop stocking the mainstream beers the punters will be forced to try something different or go without.

I remember a few years back as a Lion Brown man going to the Parrot & Jigger (then a small brew bar in Wellington). The only beer available was what they brewed and I would simply buy a pint of whatever was most in line with Lion Brown. I think they even gave me a little taster first. As a result I soon worked my way through all of their beers and before long I was regularly drinking their dark beer which was a long way from Lion Brown.

I also remember being tempted by the higher ABV beer (I think around 7%), especially when out for a big night with the lads :-)

Stop stocking the mainstream beers and start educating palates. If you're really worried about customers not returning because they couldn't get a XXX beer. Just tell them that you brew "XXX on steroids" or something like that. Make them feel good about what they're drinking.

[Stu McKinlay]

I always said that brewing isn't rocket science but now I'm not so sure...

[denimglen]

One time I brewed an amber ale the was all base and 25% crystal (fucking John Palmer haha)

That tasted like Speights.

[denimglen]

Oh and by the way, I say fuck it, brew it bro.

I agree with Crabbey, they need a gateway beer. Most NZers are wusses, they get out of their comfort zone with a beer and they're put off for life.

I'd say brew something like speights/tui but up the flavour a bit, nothing extreme, just something that makes it stand out a little more than tui/speights. I'd also make it with more alcohol, like 4.5 - 5%, cause most are so hooked up on %age, 0.5 - 1% more alcohol will be a good selling point I reckon.

I wouldn't stop stocking mainstream beers altogether because I think it's a bad business move, you risk loosing a lot of customers and potential crossovers.

[Martin townshend]

Please don't underestimate the reasons for prompting this debate. We inherited a DB contract and consequent 'locals' that the prevoius owners only catered for. We now have a hugely diverse customer base: next weeks 'Darkside' showcase will push our beer list to 99 different craft beers since last october and I was only thinking of more ways to gently move more folk into our way of thinking, (which is clearly the same as all of yours,) which is to leave thier loylaties at the door and encourage beer open mindedness. When said contract is up next year I'd say we will still have a mainstream tap or 2 out of 16, but only to make our venue one that can cater for one and all on the same bar: Real ale, craft beers and maintream stuff side by side.
To make ones own version of a mainstream effort and encourage it as an alternative does mean less $ to a foriegn owned company and it will be made in a craft brewery out of decent ingredients the right way....

[Christian]

Hi Martin,

Tui has some dodgy statement about being an 'East India Pale Ale' - so how about making a Pale Ale, but simplify the grain bill and wind back the hops?

(Though it would be expected that you also make an incredibly hoppy version for obsessive PA fans such as myself)

[Pint_of_Bitter]

Give your customers what they want, price it higher (and don't hold too much stock), you'll soon discover on the price elasticity curve how loyal they are to their brand. They'll eventually try something else and they won't 'boycot' the pub because their favourite brands aren't stocked.

[Barry]

I recently brewed something along these lines - I called it "Classic New Zealand Draught - yeah right". Something my Lion Red drinking father would enjoy.

The recipe is here.

In hindsight, the home toasted victory was a mistake - yummy but too confrontational for what I was after, and I'd drop the DSaaz and make it up in styrians - again, to distinctive.

It turned out pretty well though all in all, very drinkable, very balanced. But side by side with the keg of Centennial APA I had on at the same time, well the APA got drained in half the time.

There's some bottles of this in my case swap so some of you might get to pass judgment.