How much hops in an IPA

[Cain Harland]

Just wondering what is the average amount of hops people are using in their IPAs? For the sake of this discussion lets standardize on 6 - 7% ABV and scale to 23L.

I'm averaging 300-350g lately and been a bit underwhelmed with what I have been getting from the hops.

[Cain Harland]

Yeah for sure keeping that whirlpool going has to help with extraction and it helps the trub form a nice cone too. I'm really wondering about timing, assuming that the conclusions of this xBmt are correct and flameout vs 78c whirlpool hops yield identical results, the question is does pausing the chill anywhere to give the hops more time with the wort increase the utilization of those hops and if so what is the optimum time and temp for this pause.

It seems quite likely that a tiny flake of crushed hop in hot a whirlpool will have given its entire flavor contribution in well under an hour and possibly even during the time it takes to chill with no rests. Would be an interesting xBmt: big flame out then 1) chill fast 2) 10 min stand 3) 30 min stand 4) 1 hour stand

[Peter Smith]

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/writeups/writeup-hop-w...

[Cain Harland]

So while

brulosophy got no difference between 99c and 78c

experimentalbrew got real differences between 76c and 49c

Is the conclusion: if your going to hop stand at flame out or below 50c because there is no reason to go to 78c?

Not that you can draw any broad conclusions form these one off, small scale, experiments (I'm certainly not going to do away with flame out/whirlpool hops and add everything at 20 mins) but interesting non the less.

I would still like to see the issue of length of hop stand addressed. These 2 obviously thought that 25/30 mins was adequate.

[Crusader-Rob]

I read this one. A good experiment.

I do like the look of the recipe as well (Nice session IPA)

Peter, have you done a side by side experiment, as you may find the difference is not as much as you thought.

[Peter Smith]

No I don't have enough similar systems to brew on, but would be worth a crack

At the end of the 20 minute hop stand, I noted the temperature of the wort was just shy of 200°F/93°C.

I have now brewed a few times with a temp controlled 75C   60min  whirlpool,  the wort has to be cold enough not to isomerise   the flavour oils, hence cooling to 75C before adding the hops.   At 99-93C over 20 mins you will loose what you are looking for.

I sort of stumbled across the 75C on a really bad brew day,  doing a 90 min angry peaches clone after 45 min the burnout cutout on the urn I was using had a hissy fit and would not allow the urn to get hotter then 75C....     So I had my massive normal 20 min additions etc etc sitting their looking at me, I was pretty pissed off as I had only got 45min from only my 90 min addition.

so I turfed in all the hops I had about 180g of amarillo left it at 75C for an hour with pump on, turned everything off and let it cool overnight.   

I have 600g of amarillo so maybe do a massive 20min and a massive 75C one and a triangle test.....   you would have to alter the recipes slightly as the 75C would not add any bitterness that you lost from the 20min... but could be done by just adjusting the 60 min

While not quite bitter enough, even without any dry hop the beer had way more peach then the real thing, stone fruit ipa....

big whirlpool   that is going to keep spinning for ages, lots of agitation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_11Yn7V9UM

[Crusader-Rob]

* Kind of similar to the above I'd assume English / east coast more malt forward IPAs would use less hops anyway as a matter of style.

Havigns now made an East Coast Pale Ale - they are loaded with late hops (I mean really loaded the only hops added before 5 mins was a FWH of 15g. the rest is all 5min 0min and dryhopping.(210g) It really gives that overly juicy, massively zingy juice type flavour. 

your comment standas true with englush styles.

My suggestion would be to brew a single malt IPA (you can use any hop combo you want) and work it up from there, to see the effect different malts have o nthe perception of hop flavour (Its quite alot IMO)

[Ben Dean]

Depends on what hops I'm using and when in the process I'm using them but anywhere between around 250g-500g for me. I always used to use around 500g but since getting a pH meter and using salt additions to my water I seem to be getting more mileage from my hops.

I think some of the clone recipes you see out there don't have enough hops for a homebrew batch, I imagine with the use of hopbacks etc commercial breweries are getting better hop utilization than most homebrewers can achieve at home and this isn't being taken into account when the recipe is scaled.

Regarding the Brewdog recipes PDF, that is without a doubt full of typos. I don't believe anyone can make a 75 IBU IPA (Sorachi Ace IPA) with 34.5g of hops.

[Cain Harland]

Yeah I find a bit a lot of those recipes hard to believe. Maybe it is possable to get 75 IBU with 34.5g of Sorachi Ace if your utilization is amazing but its not going to have much flavor and Brew Dog have a rep for making good flavorsome beers.

[Cain Harland]

I just put those Sorachi Ace hop editions into beer tools pro and it recons 24 - 38 IBUs depending on if that "end " edition is 10 or 0 mins

[Crusader-Rob]

I noticed in another thjread - you mentioned that you like your ipa's slightly sweeter.

this can effect the bitterness/aroma of hops perceived. i'm not sure if this is still pertinent to your qustions, but dryness is directly related to hop aroma/bitterness, as sweetness only cuts into the hop aroma and flavour.

[Cain Harland]

I do like my IPAs a little sweet although the ones I brew seldom are, I mash high (like 68c) most of the time but always seem to get really high attenuation and end up a bit drier than I would like. All of there really good super hoppy double and imperial IPAs I can think of seem quite sweet to me, Hop Zombie for example. Not disagreeing with you here I'm sure aroma/bitterness from a certain amount of hops goes further on a dryer canvas, just saying I like a bit of sweet in there, I'm pretty sure the sweet I like is from a warm mash rather than excessive use of caras.

[Peter Smith]

What do you think of the residual sweetness in Bach brewing King tide?