How much hops in an IPA

[Cain Harland]

Just wondering what is the average amount of hops people are using in their IPAs? For the sake of this discussion lets standardize on 6 - 7% ABV and scale to 23L.

I'm averaging 300-350g lately and been a bit underwhelmed with what I have been getting from the hops.

[Cain Harland]

The amount of hops used to make an IPA seems to vary wildly. What got me thinking about this was reading through the recipes in Brew Dogs DIY Dog on Friday and was quite shocked at how small some of the hop editions were some of their IPAs had about as much hops as I would expect in a pilsner and a few other recipes I've been looking at have surprised me with how little hops they use. eg 90-Minute IPA clone from BYO which credits Sam Calagione so one would have to assume its pretty accurate only has 145g total in a 19L brew Three Floyd’s Dreadnaught on the same page uses 162g both are strong and reputedly very good and hoppy IPAs (unfortunately I have never actually drunk either). In contrast in the discussion on here about Liberty C!tra someone estimates 500g+ in a 23L brew. So if all this info is accurate C!tra has 2.5 ish the volume of hops of the other 2 at <1% higher ABV.

All three of those beers are really double/imperial IPAs but they serve as a good example of how variable the volume of hops used is.

[Sam DT]

Brain dump alert!

My usage roughly (23L):

NZ Pils: 180g (50g DH)

NZ & APA: 250g (80g DH)

IPA (6.8%): 300g (100g DH)

IIPA (9%):500g (150g DH)

There's definitely a diminishing return and you really need the extra hops to get the hit at the higher ABV (in my opinion). I think there's probably a few other factors at play:

• Dry Hopping - I do it extensively - usually split 50/50 7/4 days - if you weren't too concerned about aroma - (which lets be honest drops off massively in the first month or so anyway) you could skip or reduce dry-hopping - that'd make a significant difference. 
• I usually go very light on the malt base (a-la C!tra), without much malt in there I think you have to compensate a bit with hop flavour - if you've got some good malt coming through like one of the liberty yakimas perhaps you could dial back a little on the hop flavor and aroma without losing much?
• Kind of similar to the above I'd assume English / east coast more malt forward IPAs would use less hops anyway as a matter of style.
• I think bitterness is really key in IPAs (no shit Sherlock), I recently made a 6.8% NZ IPA but way undershot my IBU - came probably around 50 IBU - really just tasted like a boozy pale ale.
• Addition timing would make a big difference as well - I load my hops towards flame-out - only a small bittering addition before 15 minutes. Maybe if I pushed more hops to the 20-30 minute mark I could possibly get better flavor utilization (longer time in the boil) with less hops - obviously at the expense of some aroma again...

[Peter Smith]

This is a good reference    http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/group/clone-brews/forum/topics/hall...    I really like this beer but its doesn't use too many hops, when i do this beer i secondary with the dry hops... its almost only beer i secondary..

Sam I would push more towards post boil whirlpool if you where after more flavour not 20min...  I get the biggest flavour hit from at 1 hour 75 min whirlpool, don;t add the hops until is cooled to 75C.

if you want arome, add a hop bag into the keg

[David R]

"Sam I would push more towards post boil whirlpool if you where after more flavour not 20min..." 

I would have agreed with you last week, but then I read this; http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/02/hop-stand-vs-20-minute-boil-additi...

I'm still going to stick with big whirlpool additions, though part of me wants to try the experiment for myself...

[Sam DT]

Yep good call on the whirl-pooling guys (was just harking back to my memories of JPs how to brew). I haven't done much whirlpooling - apart from the fact that my biggest addition is always flame out and then I get things spinning with my immersion chiller. I'm outdoors and use a spoon so have avoided extended hop stands at this stage. That said I've build a whirlpool into my electric build (which currently seems to be eternally one month from being completed) so looking forward to giving it a crank.

Will have to give that a read David, love me some brulosophy!

[Peter Smith]

Thats a great read.   interesting this comment and then the video advertising this years westr coast challenge where he says the pump blocked while filtering...   and the massive dry hop on steve's Maximus and original entrant in the number 1 west coast challange I think..

Since this was a 20 gallon batch, I dry hopped the extra boiled hops carboy with nearly 4 oz of Cascade, which I then had BeerMe Brew Club members compare side by side with the boiled hops xBmt beer dry hopped with the usual Mosaic, Amarillo, and Citra.  The near universal response was shock at how different the flavor of the beers were. Although I preferred the intense fruit-punch character of the Mosaic/Amarillo/Citra version, others liked the more classic character of the Cascade version. This less-than-scientific experience confirms my personal belief that dry hopping has a substantial impact on flavor, not just aroma as is generally cited. In fact, I perceived the aroma difference to be less pronounced than the flavor difference.

Furthermore, the Cascade dry hopped sample was also sent to Oregon Brew Lab for IBU testing and it ended up with a measured 62 IBU (±1), the highest of the three and 4 IBU more than the boiled hops xBmt batch that came from the same kettle.

BATCH	DRY HOP	PREDICTED IBU (RAGER)	MEASURED IBU
Hop Stand	Mosaic/Amarillo/Citra	84	60 (±1)
Boiled Hops	Mosaic/Amarillo/Citra	115	58 (±1)
Boiled Hops	Cascade Only	115	62 (±1)

Indeed, this is nearly within the margin of error, but in light of Scott Janish’s recent postindicating dry hopping contributes to bitterness, my mind is swirling– the technically most bitter batch was dry hopped with a lower quantity of lower AA% hops. Could some idiosyncratic property of Cascade be the culprit or are we too close to call? Again, I’m left with more questions than answers…

https://youtu.be/s3O6bNQWQHY

maybe its time to have another crack at Ammegedon IPA

with a massive 300g multiple stage dry hop and still decent boil hops

more like the maximus recipe, looking for percieved bitterness from massive high AA dry hops balancing a maltier but less bitter base  beer

[Cain Harland]

If you do manage to nail that Ammegedon please give me some tips. I still haven't tried since our discussion some months ago mostly because I've had bulk hops to use up. I did use the planed hop schedule and substitute Falconers flight for everything but that batch of hops was tainted (was one of those 5kg boxes and others from the box had same issue) so I ended up tipping 60L in the garden so can't make any judgement on the recipe.

[Peter Smith]

most of the recipes I have seen have like 80-100 g dry hop not like a 150 warm dry hop then another 150g cold dry hop.....       I would use the aromatic hops on the warm dry one , then the Simcoe/Columbus on the cold one,   do a second batch with that swapped around ie high AA warm then low AA cold hop.

Either way keep ALL the columbus out of the boil.    instead massive dry hop.  I have a few pils to get done , then I will try this  new approach

[Cain Harland]

That is a very interesting read and goes against what we probably all took for granted about hop editions. It would have been even better had they done a <80c hop stand too.

[Peter Smith]

Don't read too much into it, go watch someone like Andrew Childs brew, pac jade up front then whirlpool.....    do your own experiment on your own kit.....

[Cain Harland]

Here is the hot vs cold (78c) hop stand I was interested in.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/01/the-hop-stand-hot-vs-chilled-wort-...

Again surprisingly no difference. This makes me wonder if hop stand is worth while at all, that is if there is no difference between flame out and 78c why not add it all at flame out and get some steeping time while chilling down to 78c. But that still leaves the question of does pausing at one of these 2 temperatures cause a significant difference compared to chilling straight to pitching temp after flame out, this may depend on the efficiency of the wort chiller (ie a slow one like mine may keep the beer in the appropriate range longer) but a xBmt using a good one would be interesting.

[Peter Smith]

I think its the level of agitation during that hour at 75C, its all about surface contact hop to wort.  the whirlpool keeps moving stuff around, think for a minute how if you don't move your immersion chiller it doesn't cool much,   whirlpool means a pool that is whirling.... its really important.   keep the pump turned on